Tree of Savior Forum

Why is upgrading gear becoming so needlessly complicated?

The good thing is that the new system works on any gear from level 75 onwards.
This means you don’t need to farm new gear to benefit from it.

In my opinion this is great, I can improve my already transcended gear to stay viable longer instead of being forced into Velcoffer gear right of the bat.

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How else are they going to keep the whales spending, and everyone logging in? A compelling story? Ha. No, face facts, Velcoffer will be in the dumpster a year from now, if not sooner. From the looks of things they’re speeding up content production, which means more level cap raises, Johnny Nooby will be waving around a Level 440 Primus that is on par with a Velcoffer, and he will have spent less than a percent of the time and effort that went into the Velcoffer weapon on his Primus. You are absolutely not looking at the death of gear progression in ToS, and I encourage you to come say hi to me in a year so we can talk about it.

So, uh, how many additional upgrade system is too many, for you? 10? 30? Where do you personally draw the line?

Before Rank 9 update, with all the talks surrounding the very rapid declining population back then, I recall lots of complains / feedback about how gears are too boring. Fixed stats, and upgrading is just anvil (pure RNG, with determined increment outcome) and transcend (fixed), and how there’s a need to have so much more personalities to the equips to make people have incentive to work for, so server can be more alive.

I think what we have now is the result of that. (Note I’m neutral about what’s said).


i thing so but its still been a unfair p2w way pf making items due the all otheres mechanics involved on make a finish velcoff item.

a good idea could be make more raids hard like this and get the ichors from that raids or with farming items make the normal powder to increase bertas to primus and by that way get sierra powder to.

but dont care how much ideas or solutios have theses problems IMC preffer the 0.05 rng succes rate because in that way they get more money on letitias.

or for example the las balance on tracendance they chose to reduce the gems in half but when they set the next cube after that patch they change the bless shards on letitias cubes from 3 to 1 to keep them in a overeprice and still been a profit item for them

There’s a way to look at it:

They are alternative ways of getting a perfect piece of gear.

The Masinios/350 armor/Solmiki usually cover one kind of build, while the random stat items cover other kind.

I personally think the classes that have the need for more standard items have an easier time,because it’s way less layers of rng.

Now that’s a real bad situation.

Your response doesn’t make sense to me. What does this have to do with IMC adding an ever-increasing number of upgrade systems required by all items? Regardless of their origin or what builds they use, the number of things you have to do to make a weapon work keeps going up.

The number of rng layers depends on your build.

Ex: If you’re an SR , Solmiki/Masinios (the standard gear with fixed stats) is way better than any Primus bullshit.

So you’re removing all the “Apprasier related layers” of RNG from your perfect weapon.

And that’s super unfair to builds that need stats that you only get from Primus bs

What’s that got to do with this game having an ever increasing number of upgrade systems, when it really doesn’t need them? You appear to be in the wrong thread.

Holy ■■■■ you’re dense.

I’m saying there’s more layers of rng depending on the character you want to play, and that fact is even worse than having so many layers on the first place(because only a group of players are forced to deal with it). We both agree that so much convoluted bs is bad,i’m just adding that it’s worse for a group than other.

Have fun on your thread that you just made to hear nods in agreement.

This system is totally different from the prior systems.

  1. It can be used on every equipment piece so it provides a major stat boost for older equipment

  2. it is a by-product of grinding/farming/leveling, as blue gears drop like candy nowadays, and it is pretty clear that these items have to go somewhere. You can now get extra benefits by dismantling them instead of feeding it to gems if the random stats on the items are crap

  3. it has a low stack rate;
    Since you can’t stack enchant boni with this system, you can just apply any jewel you get without having to fear regret, and without the need to stack 1 certain stat you usually want to on other equipment

  4. enchant can be overwritten without loss or extra costs, meaning you can replace enchants on your gear if you stumble upon better enchant jewels

Not a very good example of “totally different”, seeing as you can use transcendence, enhancement, gems, and awakening on basically every other piece of equipment in game, and argue that these improve their longevity.

I agree with 2 and 3 (4 is just 3, said differently) but I wonder what that has to do with the purpose of this thread? It’s cool that you like to increase numbers on your weapons, but do you need, say, this system and awakening, both? Isn’t this just basically a more fun, less irritating awakening system?

And anyway, I notice you didn’t answer my question. How many upgrade systems would be too many for you?

The question is: what the hell will happen when we get r11 and supposedly primuses that will have the same raw power as the Velcoffer stuff (without the extra ichor/set bonuses)? when r12 is released? It’s so painful/boring/time and resource consuming to make Velcoffer stuff that nobody sane will ever do that again. Velcoffer raid will go the same route as mercenary missions, former fantasy library and similar content nobody ever does again…

On a side note… you forgot “weapon maintenance” from shop in the list :wink:

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technically the problem isnt the amunt of layers, it is the rng between them who push you to farm more time to succes something.


.-to get 1 icho red you need almos 20 atteps so thats mean over 2000 sierra powder if a weapon/item primus gives 20 you will need over 100 items to make this by your own thats like 25hrs of farming if you drop 1 primus each 15 min
.- get 200 gems to tracend an item could take over 50 days playing all the bless drop raids like saulus and gf and getting 20 shards farming each day (i thought that this must take over 3hrs each day so its become 150hrs)
.- make a masinios equipment to extract some item could take anothers 24hrs of full farming and surelly you must need 3 to get 1 ichor so thats become like 72hrs farming (including money to buy 2 practo)
like 247hrs playing to make 1 item by your own work
1235 hrs just farming to make 5 velcoff pieces
617 days playing to make it by your own playing 2 hrs each day
and them become the upgrade stuff…

anyone can say “but you can buy tons of items and make it more easy” but in that way its become soo unfair when others players have tons of money from rtm or corean farming while others was quiting (like me) and they can fix the prices of the market with those amount of money. and become imposible to make it easy wihtoy pay to thats players for the items that we needs. for example the diamons anvils that are for over 60m on my server and those players handle the market with increasing and decrasing the prices

plz read the very top of this thread.


the shord answer could be, because players had been invest somuch on upgrading that delete thos mechanic must be soo unfair and chaotical. anyway just upgrading and tracending are the 2 primordial mechanics… nobody cares about awakes and for normal weapons ichor is irrelevant

and again the short answer for , why imc do not delet or make it more easy its because they get money with this

Tbh, I think the new enchanting should have been a reworked/buffed awakening. Ichor should have never been a thing. Gems just needed buff or % increase on them & more variety of special effects. What raids and solmiki armor/weapon needed imo is just special visual effects and the ability to remove gems without penalty. Cap the enhancement to +11. It would far more easier to balance classes this way because players like me can do proper DPS benchmarks at least single target/bosses on each classes/builds instead of RNG side/better gear. (E.G I can say this build based on class combination/stats is better for this situation and not just someone having +21 and above) It is what it is though. I agree it is confusing for new players.

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I never said that I want 10 or 30 systems. The reason I point out the new system is because it’s heading in the right direction. More for less instead of less with more.

It’s basically an integrated system that comes with farming random stat gears, giving you a boost with what was prior just useless crap equipment (the random stat equipment system is still pretty atrocious in its current state).

So instead of adding system + system + system, integrating systems into other systems provides the same benefits while reducing the frustration of the user.

Velcoffer is the pinnacle of this frustration, forcing you to farm different items separately with multiple layers of RNG added onto it.

However, this system stems from the outcast of RNG layers.

Imagine IMC would apply this to the Velcoffer system, allowing you e.g. to fuse 0 potential Velcoffer equipment with full potential equipment to boost its enhancement rate? Or allowing people to pay in Velcoffer soul fragments for secure upgrades to a fixed upgrade count cap if they want? This would be an in-system system that reduces the numbers of RNG-layers required to attain the goal, and effectively the number of overall systems on the long run.

I guess IMC envisioned a system to give birth to strong gear that stays viable till endgame at Rank 12 with the Velcoffer gear, which is why they made it so hard to complete. If we take this into consideration, you’ll likely have about 2-3 years to complete Velcoffer and still be up to date with gear progression.

However, that just accounts for the long term, as it’s pretty taxing to go through all of these systems for progression (though some are optional, e.g. the gems on armor not really providing huge benefits; item awakening is nice for bonus evasion/SP Recovery or HP, but that’s about it).

And there is also a bonus to this, the relief.

If you can substitute for the lack of something in one of these systems in another system (e.g. the lack of weapon upgrade through enchant, the lack of SP with item awakening or the lack of CON with bonus stats), there is no need to be optimized anymore.

All in all, I won’t say it’s not flawed, there are way too many systems that are independent from each other, requiring different content attendance, play styles and/or in-game approaches of the player to the game itself.

However, if we see more changes the way we see now, where systems become integrated into each other to lessen the RNG burden, it will be a good improvement for the players.

LOL. I give it a year before Primus reaches similar levels of power. People aren’t considering the accelerating content development cycle when they pretend their 500 million silver investment is going to last 4eva.

Other than that, I agree, although you must understand I am incredibly weary of the RNG issue infecting this thread. The frustration with the Velcoffer situation is all-consuming, and it’s usually the fault of the individuals for falling into yet another min-maxer trap set by IMC. All they had to do was buy some mediocre Primuses they could afford to lose and pronounce their weapon “good enough”. I’m personally tired of hearing about their mistakes.

TOS already had a multitude of bugs and mechanics poorly implemented over the yers, and I still kept playing with hope, but the ICHOR system undermined the last drop of hope that had for this game, not by the system itself but by its difficulty of extration.

Today I force myself to play only TOS, because I know that if I start playing anything, anything at all, I never come back to this game. But I’m strong up to a point, and what I see about the Rank10 news is not helping.

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