Tree of Savior Forum

Why is upgrading gear becoming so needlessly complicated?

General Discussion
#1

EDIT: THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT RNG. IT IS ABOUT CONFUSING, EXCESSIVE NUMBERS OF UPGRADE SYSTEMS. IF YOU HATE RNG, GO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT THAT. DO NOT POST ABOUT IT HERE. THANK YOU.

Making a “complete” piece of equipment requires the following:
Enhancement for the +'s
Transcendence for base stats
Gems for slots
Your 1 Awakening
(Everything but Maso’s/Sol’s):
Item re-identification/those pay2win reroll lenses
(Velcoffer specific)
Ichor RNG hell

And now they’re adding another non-redundant upgrade system intended to coexist with all of this?

Stop! It’s too much! You’re going to confuse and repel new players. Nobody actually likes having 18 different things to do to make their sword good. You don’t need to keep adding crap to keep players interested. You can do that with less upgrade systems.

You could make this thing less complicated and just as grind- uh I mean engaging by removing things and rolling some upgrade systems into others. For example: Transcendence. Kill it off completely, make Blessed Gems improve Enhancement success rates, and roll the value increases from Transcendence into Enhancement over-upgrades. Rather than refunding Blessed Gems to their users, automatically upgrade the transcended equipment by an amount equivalent to the value being transferred from the old Transcendence system into the new Enhancement system.

Just like that, simpler system, does the same thing, and people continue to play the game in the exact same way, with the added benefit of reducing the power gap between the Alt Account Event Abuser Army and normal human beings who don’t exploit to get 100 diamond anvils every time they’re offered. (Of course, these guys still run Saalus 300 times a day, but that’s honestly far worse for them and the quality of their lives, than it is for anyone else.)

Here’s another good idea: Awakening system. Gone. Turn the Awakening shop into the Enchant jewel shop, giving Alchemists something cool to do. Let people keep their Awakenings- they’re largely trivial gains, and the items they’re on will eventually be replaced, anyway.

How 'bout that? Do more with less?

6 Likes
#2

As a returning player, I agree. The game has a lot those things I need to confirm by googling. Most of the results are either outdated, incomplete or just a somewhat complicated to understand that I don’t bother reading/searching for more information.

#3

the answer for everything its " because IMC want mony" all mechanic are made like an rng/p2w upgrade way. you can suffer triying to upgrade an weapon or waste money to get it more easy and make it hard its the way to push players to buy boxes

#4

The gear upgrade system in this game is horrible. I reached the solmiki milestone, finished it and have not chnged since.

The sad reality here is to be able to keep up, you either throw money at this game or suffer quality of life to keep up.

Too much rng, too fast gear turnover. I bet many are frustrated on this game that arent here on the forums

#5

Not really what I’m talking about. Different issue altogether, and one that IMC has strong incentive not to “fix”. So long as there are people foolish enough to throw money away on videogame weapons that’ll be obsolete in a year at most, there will be P2W rng.

But at least it can be straightforward, yes? You don’t need 10 different layers of upgrades to be p2w, IMC. One or two is fine if you want to trap whales.

1 Like
#6

this is because the corean game rulls are very soft about boxes, some games from other countries have a more hard politics about the rng on the p2w mechanics and the flawless of the game impact, son or lather this company will have troubles with some external politics about these espesially of usa and some players have report the rng of leticia’s cubes from the first edition and they have rigth to do that, when the first box put practonioms has one of the 4 S items and barely 1 of 10 S items was a practo and the oters 9 are almost only gems abrasives ( tested for some youtubers with over 200^10 boxes)

#7

I’m not gonna defend the RNG aspect of gear, but the change they’ve made for Velcoffer is a huge step in the right direction.

Gear progression is a terrible idea, it should have never existed in the first place and MMOs that continue to adopt it should expect to fail.

I’ve spent quite a bit of time on now 2 MMOs being an active PvP player who never really PvPs. All because there is gear necessary to compete, especially for a knowledge based player like myself. (One who’s strengths lie more with builds, and technique over execution, reaction and focus) To not have gear because it’s too hard to get is terrible.

Velcoffer still has this issue because in order to get it you must clear the hardest PvE content which forces gear progression. It also forces a viable PvE build in order to obtain it for use in PvP. However at least the majority of it is now in the upgrading it, it’s not perfect and the RNG aspects of it are also bad, but it’s doing what ToS has done since I joined, slowly improving for the better at a snails pace.

While the rest of the worlds game developers live their lives as low tier morons, IMC is slowly learn the ABCs of game design one letter at a time (possibly by accident) It’s a lot better than what we’re used to in other MMOs though.

#8

The good thing is that the new system works on any gear from level 75 onwards.
This means you don’t need to farm new gear to benefit from it.

In my opinion this is great, I can improve my already transcended gear to stay viable longer instead of being forced into Velcoffer gear right of the bat.

1 Like
#9

How else are they going to keep the whales spending, and everyone logging in? A compelling story? Ha. No, face facts, Velcoffer will be in the dumpster a year from now, if not sooner. From the looks of things they’re speeding up content production, which means more level cap raises, Johnny Nooby will be waving around a Level 440 Primus that is on par with a Velcoffer, and he will have spent less than a percent of the time and effort that went into the Velcoffer weapon on his Primus. You are absolutely not looking at the death of gear progression in ToS, and I encourage you to come say hi to me in a year so we can talk about it.

So, uh, how many additional upgrade system is too many, for you? 10? 30? Where do you personally draw the line?

#10

Before Rank 9 update, with all the talks surrounding the very rapid declining population back then, I recall lots of complains / feedback about how gears are too boring. Fixed stats, and upgrading is just anvil (pure RNG, with determined increment outcome) and transcend (fixed), and how there’s a need to have so much more personalities to the equips to make people have incentive to work for, so server can be more alive.

I think what we have now is the result of that. (Note I’m neutral about what’s said).

2 Likes
#11

i thing so but its still been a unfair p2w way pf making items due the all otheres mechanics involved on make a finish velcoff item.

a good idea could be make more raids hard like this and get the ichors from that raids or with farming items make the normal powder to increase bertas to primus and by that way get sierra powder to.

but dont care how much ideas or solutios have theses problems IMC preffer the 0.05 rng succes rate because in that way they get more money on letitias.

or for example the las balance on tracendance they chose to reduce the gems in half but when they set the next cube after that patch they change the bless shards on letitias cubes from 3 to 1 to keep them in a overeprice and still been a profit item for them

#12

There’s a way to look at it:

They are alternative ways of getting a perfect piece of gear.

The Masinios/350 armor/Solmiki usually cover one kind of build, while the random stat items cover other kind.

I personally think the classes that have the need for more standard items have an easier time,because it’s way less layers of rng.

Now that’s a real bad situation.

#13

Your response doesn’t make sense to me. What does this have to do with IMC adding an ever-increasing number of upgrade systems required by all items? Regardless of their origin or what builds they use, the number of things you have to do to make a weapon work keeps going up.

#14

The number of rng layers depends on your build.

Ex: If you’re an SR , Solmiki/Masinios (the standard gear with fixed stats) is way better than any Primus bullshit.

So you’re removing all the “Apprasier related layers” of RNG from your perfect weapon.

And that’s super unfair to builds that need stats that you only get from Primus bs

#15

What’s that got to do with this game having an ever increasing number of upgrade systems, when it really doesn’t need them? You appear to be in the wrong thread.

#16

Holy ■■■■ you’re dense.

I’m saying there’s more layers of rng depending on the character you want to play, and that fact is even worse than having so many layers on the first place(because only a group of players are forced to deal with it). We both agree that so much convoluted bs is bad,i’m just adding that it’s worse for a group than other.

Have fun on your thread that you just made to hear nods in agreement.

#17

This system is totally different from the prior systems.

  1. It can be used on every equipment piece so it provides a major stat boost for older equipment

  2. it is a by-product of grinding/farming/leveling, as blue gears drop like candy nowadays, and it is pretty clear that these items have to go somewhere. You can now get extra benefits by dismantling them instead of feeding it to gems if the random stats on the items are crap

  3. it has a low stack rate;
    Since you can’t stack enchant boni with this system, you can just apply any jewel you get without having to fear regret, and without the need to stack 1 certain stat you usually want to on other equipment

  4. enchant can be overwritten without loss or extra costs, meaning you can replace enchants on your gear if you stumble upon better enchant jewels

#18

Not a very good example of “totally different”, seeing as you can use transcendence, enhancement, gems, and awakening on basically every other piece of equipment in game, and argue that these improve their longevity.

I agree with 2 and 3 (4 is just 3, said differently) but I wonder what that has to do with the purpose of this thread? It’s cool that you like to increase numbers on your weapons, but do you need, say, this system and awakening, both? Isn’t this just basically a more fun, less irritating awakening system?

And anyway, I notice you didn’t answer my question. How many upgrade systems would be too many for you?

#19

The question is: what the hell will happen when we get r11 and supposedly primuses that will have the same raw power as the Velcoffer stuff (without the extra ichor/set bonuses)? when r12 is released? It’s so painful/boring/time and resource consuming to make Velcoffer stuff that nobody sane will ever do that again. Velcoffer raid will go the same route as mercenary missions, former fantasy library and similar content nobody ever does again…

On a side note… you forgot “weapon maintenance” from shop in the list :wink:

1 Like
#20

technically the problem isnt the amunt of layers, it is the rng between them who push you to farm more time to succes something.

example:

.-to get 1 icho red you need almos 20 atteps so thats mean over 2000 sierra powder if a weapon/item primus gives 20 you will need over 100 items to make this by your own thats like 25hrs of farming if you drop 1 primus each 15 min
.- get 200 gems to tracend an item could take over 50 days playing all the bless drop raids like saulus and gf and getting 20 shards farming each day (i thought that this must take over 3hrs each day so its become 150hrs)
.- make a masinios equipment to extract some item could take anothers 24hrs of full farming and surelly you must need 3 to get 1 ichor so thats become like 72hrs farming (including money to buy 2 practo)
like 247hrs playing to make 1 item by your own work
1235 hrs just farming to make 5 velcoff pieces
617 days playing to make it by your own playing 2 hrs each day
and them become the upgrade stuff…

anyone can say “but you can buy tons of items and make it more easy” but in that way its become soo unfair when others players have tons of money from rtm or corean farming while others was quiting (like me) and they can fix the prices of the market with those amount of money. and become imposible to make it easy wihtoy pay to thats players for the items that we needs. for example the diamons anvils that are for over 60m on my server and those players handle the market with increasing and decrasing the prices