Tree of Savior Forum

Why are people asking for captcha?

General Discussion
#22

Yes, I would if it’s true. Because they aren’t implemented on that many mmos in a way that they actually work. I remember reading somewhere in the forums that CSGO also still has hacks while spending the record amount of money developing their anti cheating software.

Afaik, for mmorpgs it’s usually much more simple to develop bots and cheats than for fps mmos. And for 2,5D it might be even easier?

Usually captchas don’t work because they aren’t updated often enough. If the botters needed someone supervising them, it would make gold farming less cost efficient. Considering how easy it is to implement it in a way it doesn’t bother players, I think it would be worth it. Not as a definite fool proof method but as an extra feature to harass the gold sellers.

#23

I love this game, I’ve sank 40 hours into it in the last 7 days!

But I’m going to be frank here, the moment a captcha window pops up. I’m leaving.

#24

All your reasons for not liking captcha system are pointless.

Captcha can be very non-intrusive by simply having a spot in the UI that will flash or something, that you can click when you’re ready to enter it. Obviously, you wouldn’t be able to prolong it for an hour or something, but 5-10 minutes is fine.

Captcha system that uses images of numbers and letters, each captcha image consisting of several small images of each letter/number. Made sure that each image of a letter/number is the same file size and have a system in place to change the name of each letter/number image file daily.

  • Bot can’t read an image.
  • Can’t differentiate through file size.
  • Can’t differentiate by file names, because it would be changed daily on their side.
#25

This is the mindset of a F2P player. Through and through, you pick a really flawed system and then claim it can be tweaked into something useful.

It can’t. Simply put players like myself who have played high quality MMORPG games just won’t cope with the system. I’ve never had to enter a captcha in an MMORPG since 2006?

I know many people who would ask leave this game if they had to do captcha. Its annoying. Its intrustive and pointless.

#26

If you’re botter and the captcha gets implemented in a way normal users won’t be seeing it more than maybe on a really rare occasion, then by all means you should be leaving when you see one :slight_smile:

Seriously though, it can be implemented in a way it could be of extra use to fight against the botting problem without ruining the gaming experience. Why are some people so dead against it and think it wouldn’t be even worth considering?

The old lazy and quick way how it’s been implemented on some cheap mmos back in the years isn’t what I meant then, so don’t bring it as an example or reason if you even bother to answer my question above.

#27

You are assuming the bots are not being moderated. It may be true for private bot, but not for gold seller which is the bigger problem.

I can write a simple app that send the captcha to me or my colleague’s (everyone in the gold seller team) phone whenever it pop out, and solve it on the spot.

I can even create a distributed system where there is this network of gold seller and buyer, the system will send the captcha to the buyer for them to solve. If they solve it correctly, they gain free points for buying gold.

I mean, this is a very old method of bypassing captcha, I won’t be surprised if there are even better method which I’m not aware of.

1 Like
#28

But stricter moderation would mean botting becomes less cost efficient. And if it becomes bothersome enough to not being worth their time, they will mostly leave. All you have to do is be less profitable game for them than others on average.

No one is expecting captcha becoming the only solution or even that efficient in a way it would make botting not possible. All it has to do is add extra difficulty/work needed for botting.

#29

It’s fairly simple to implement what I just said, but it introduce a great load to real player.

I would say sending hash data about the client is a better method because it require a higher skill to bypass it, and don’t really burden the real player.

1 Like
#30

OK let’s set the tone.

I’m grinding in a party. Having a wonderful time and a laugh. Suddenly a box pops up;

"Click all the pictures of dinosaurs*

“What?”

#31

I asked to people with some knowledge and they say captchas are useless for bots. Beyond that, captchas don’t have to be annoying. It can be a little pop-up in the corner of the screen and you can have 5 minutes to complete for example. In addition, you’d not get captchas if you aren’t doing anything (AFK).

Those aren’t problem, the problem is that (apparently) captchas simply don’t work against bots (I wonder if it’d work with basic bots tho).

1 Like
#32

And I was suggesting the captcha should be implemented in a way this wouldn’t be happening and it needs certain conditions for triggering it to pop up. The conditions shouldn’t be " When someone is grinding in a party. Having a wonderful time and a laugh."

#33

It wouldn’t work on bots as long as the gold sellers pay for the bot developers for updates on their bots. And this would increase their costs making it less profitable, which would translate as less gold sellers on this particular game because the costs versus competition wouldn’t allow that many compared to what it would without the constant need of updating their software.

#34

@Solkazo
Your argument is that you are lazy and that it’s simply too much for you. Not even going to try to argue with that.

@Mirarara
How exactly are they going to solve it by the phone?
Who is going to run to their home every hour or so to solve it?
Hell, who of those trashes is even willing to log on every hour on their laptop to solve it?

I wouldn’t. If I was in their shoes and not everything was completely automatic, I would simply leave and do it in another game that let’s me do the whole thing automatically.

Why even bother coding anything to fight the captcha, when it’s much easier to just earn on another game?

Let’s be honest though, a lot of bots are private bots. Even if the captcha ONLY dealt with that, it’s worth it. In addition to the new reporting option for the big goldseller bots and dealing with them manually, I think it’s a good system to have in the game, as well.

It will certainly deal with Z-jammers, or even people afking, crowding the server for no reason.

#35

Lazy? No. I love this game and want it to thrive, this games fantastic and I’ve really loved it. This is the ragnarok I’ve been looking for. The moment the cash shop goes live I’m going to be sinking cash into it.

I don’t want a second rate system implemented in a game I love. That’s all there is to it, many people playing this game come from successful games and never experienced a single pop up box. It would be a massive turn off for these people, we don’t want that.

Having a system that does a hash count on the client is so much better. Average users wouldn’t have a clue on how to get around it, plus! No user would have silly cheap popups in game.

Could you bypass hash method? Yes. But you can instantly update it on the fly and catch every single 3rd party program user in a single sweep… This seems a better method.

#36

Still thinking you’re just lazy to enter a few letters and numbers, sorry.

I think multiple systems to fight it is better, than attempting to deal with everything with one system.

If they were an AAA, western development team, I’d have more faith in stuff like that.

#37

You should realize this system exist just for solving download site captcha, and people does it even if it’s not profitable.

Coding this system is much easier than coding the bot. If I’m a gold seller, why not earn from multiple game instead of just one game? It’s not even something hard to code, I doubt if I should stop earning from ToS just because it invent a system I can easily bypass.

Private bots and Z-jammers aren’t even a big concern right now, and even if they do exist, it’s quite easy to deal with them with report function compared to the real problem, mass botting by gold seller.

#38

How about this:

  1. You report a bot
  2. The bot reported freezes and receive a captcha to solve
  3. This freeze turn the player/bot actionless
  4. Bot have 1min to solve, if not, get a dc for 30min
1 Like
#39

That’s a really easy system to abuse.

1 Like
#40

If a capcha pops up every hour, a botter should automatically log out and rejoin on a second account every 59 minutes.
Or the same account, if that works.

#41

If the solution needs constant human intervention to keep the bots up and running 247, I wouldn’t call it easy. No human would be willing to answer multiple captchas per hour caused by few dozens of bots running at the same time for long. It could work for a day or even for a week but unless you pay for someone, they’d stop solving the captchas for your automated system. And if you have to pay for them, it causes botting becoming less profitable.