Tree of Savior Forum

Why are half of the Archer classes so weak?

General Discussion
#41

The change from old Sonic Strike value to new one makes First Strike’s output jump from ‘pfft’ to ‘holy hell’, adds in things like Circling Expand, Aiming (larger enmies hit box = more enemies likely to get hit by SS) and you have a pretty good constant DPS going on.

Wouldn’t the damage from Caltrops get quite high with Circling Expand + Aiming from Falc C3? It’s still 3600% if all 15 hits (with aiming pretty likely too)
And Rapid Fire is +150 crit rate for your whole team while firing +3s after.

Although I’m a hipster and plan to use 2H bow only so no rapid fire for me .- .

#42

Just resetted my a2 r1 wugu1 flet3 hacka to a1 r3 rog3 hacka.
Backstab, sneak hit, evasion are the skills which doesnt dismount.
I dont know why now i am thinking to remain as it is bcz of those lovely yellow dmg numbers flying off dealing huge dmg.

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#43

I see. I’ve just recently resetted to cannoneer so I’m still deciding whether to keep resetting or stay. Might as well try Falconer tomorrow.

#44

Hacka can be super strong, you get so many slots, what the hell is this guy smoking. Must be scrub.

#45

well that is one part of “heavy investment” that needs to be done on hackapell.

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#46

I seriously disagree with Hackapell more than anything else. Hackapell’s got some of the hardest hitting skills in the game now. You and OP must just have zero gear, in which case you’d be doing ■■■■ damage with any class anyway. Last patch paradigm is over, you can’t just say “Oh Hacka does 6000% attack damage burst, but since I have bad gear I’d do better damage as a Dragoon”, because Dragoon doesn’t have easy 200k guaranteed crit dethrones even with no weapon anymore. Pretty sure Hacka is going to be a very meta build in R9, considering the scaling on its skills is just going to make it stronger and stronger with more skill points. Right now all skills are capped at 5 and it still hits like a truck.

IMO Rogue3 is also a lot better now because of this. Having only one damage dealing skill isn’t as much of a detriment because the difference between Lvl 5 and Lvl 10 Backstab is really big now compared to almost nothing before. I’m pretty happy with my hackarogue, especially since 315 HG swords with 4 gem slots are going to make gearing up much easier.

#47

was sadhu buffed with this update? bcuz if not last time i checked the whole class was a huge bug and did like 2 damage. Same with Monk. but on a lesser scale. and kabbalist imo is lackluster. But bokor isnt lackluster.

#48

ABE, Possession and Transmit Prana were all buffed.
Out of Body was nerfed but will be better overall in the next update.
Vashiti remains useless. One day it might be worth something. Since Vashiti is useless Sadhu is pretty easy to build. Max, Possession, Transmit, ABE, 1 point for Prakriti, rest in OoB.

#49

yes sadhu is now amazing-tier and monk is insane as well

#50

i tested that build too, it’s gorgeous
you should try it with archer c3 r1 so you get more evasion + crit rate, you lose damage from steady aim, but you gain all that + twin arrows(it’s super strong)

#51

You can also replace the R1 with Wugushi 1 given that Zendu now has scaling.

#52

I think every class work in someway, even with scout3, i 've just test yesterday, still really great in solo dung 170, with falcon mergen also great in farming HG, use Split shot x5 and oblique shotx5 to lure then falcon mergen normal combo then finish the rest with splitshot

#53

You are a troll.

Kabbalist is by far the weakest of all Cleric Classes.
Even Cleric C2 is stronger than Kabbalist…

The weak classes seen below are being overshadowed by these strong classes, mostly by Falconer and Fletcher, giving the illusion that Archers are super strong and amazing, when only 3 of them truly are, leaving the rest of the classes ignored

You know that Falconer itself is really weak and only good when it’s at Circle 3 and the Falcon autoattacks (and Circling gets its expand damage attribute).

Circle 1 and 2 are lackluster (only used for Circling), especially since the skills all have very high CD times and cause a time loss because the falcon always flies away after using a skill, which requires you to recall him with Call to use the next skill.

Btw, you realize that Falconer is not one but 2 characters,right? The Falconer and his Falcon. Both take a character slot and both require to spend silver on them to be effective (bonus points via Pet Trainer are damn expensive).
You accounted Hunter as two characters with more funds required, so why not acknowledge it also for Falconer?
Falconer at Circle 3 deals damage because it’s 2 characters fighting together,point.

Hunter is not weak. Hunter is as strong as Falconer if not stronger when it comes to single target fighting. Rush Dog, Coursing, Snatching & Retrieve are hitting hard and most of them even disable the monsters, the same goes for Growling [the disabling of enemies].

Really? I thought that der Schwarze Reiter attacks only with his pistol, so why would he need to spend on his mainhand weapon? Just put some slots and red gems in it [or greens for crit] and spend all on the pistol…
Musketeer has a twohanded weapon, so why would he need to spend twice? He spends only once, which is half of what other Classes with main- and subhand need to. His damage isn’t really good,though.

Why do you need a pistol? you just equip a crossbow and a sword and you’re done. No need for a pistol unless you’re also a Schwarzer Reiter…
Leg Shot is ± an alternative for people who don’t want to use a sword or advanced from said SR into Hackapella and not a necessity. Just look at its damage, it’s so weak and costs so many SP.

Btw, judging from the numbers, Hackapella is potentially stronger than Inquisitor [on its own that is].Yet you list Inquisitor as OP and Hackapella as weak/lackluster…

#54

I have to strongly disagree with the assertions of the OP here.

It looks like you’re only judging any classes by one single metric, whether they’re good at ET or not.

Just because classes are not strong classes at fighting high health groups of mobs with aoe damage doesn’t mean that they’re weak or bad or need changing.

Wugushi is ridiculous at single target damage. Literally melts bosses. Back in the worldbossing gameplay they would destroy bosses if there were not competing Wugus.

Hunter has the strongest control skill in the game. Excels at burst damage now. Excels at pvp.

Musketeer literally just picks a target and deletes a player in pvp.

These classes have roles and skills beyond solely their usage in endgame grinding of an endgame dungeon only a tiny percent of players are bothering with.

Half the complaints people have about xyz classes tend to lean on a desire to play them outside of the areas that they’re strong at. Not every class needs to be able to do everything in the game.

#55

Not really true TBH. They probably would NOW, but back then since poison couldn’t crit and everyone could easily have 100% critrate fletchers kicked their asses.

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#56

Only with OP gear which was, at least at the time, rare.

The thing that hurt the wugus on the bosses back then was the fact that only 1 poison could be applied at a time and they would constantly steal the poison damage from each other.

I don’t think the extremely small differences in their value as bossers is much to argue about though. Either Fletcher won the bosses or a Wugu did. Being first and second at doing their thing above all other classes really shows that the OP isn’t exactly correct about them being weak. At least vs the high hp bosses. The meta got kind of messy vs the lower health bosses with odd classes like Shinobi bursting with Clones getting the first place.

It doesn’t matter too much. The point is that they have a role where they do excel, within the interesting role of the class.

The downside many classes have is that we lack content that really shows that they excel at something. We lack content with large enough variety that really brings different class strengths properly to light. The various dungeons of the future should include multiple challenges that provide multiple class roles with their strengths. And the gvg of the future should really give different classes the ability to shine within their intended roleplay rather than being one dimensional damage-fests.

Content variety is our issue. Class balance needs some work, but content variety is what we need to give all the other interesting classes their time in some spotlight.

At least that’s my opinion. I’m not interested in trying to make every single class great in a high hp aoe mob-fest with various cheese tactics being employed. I think we’d end up with a lack of variety amongst the classes from that. Instead the content could be extended to show the variety that already exists. Don’t get me entirely wrong though, it’s not that there aren’t some tweaks here or there that some classes couldn’t benefit from, but I think it’s an error for people to think it’s just that they’re weak, when in reality it’s just that there isn’t content now that shows off some strengths.

I mean. Imagine if Sapper actually had a mode where they had an interesting role. Put some high ground on a map with a side with no handrail. Sapper traps could suddenly have a high value use in launching players off the high ground. Or just into a big death hole. Isn’t that the entire premise of one or two classes in Overwatch? Pushing enemies of cliffs or holes? Interesting content with interesting uses could give a lot of utility to them.

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#57

Couldn’t agree more.

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#58

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