Tree of Savior Forum

What's the point of going Monk really?

Class and Rank Cleric
#61

Weird how you’re only focusing on Double Punch, you should take a look at the other skills as well and see how they work. We’re basically a debuff/tank class, not a DPS class in that sense. All other skills in the Monk tree focus on survivability and status ailment infliction.

See, you say my post is “totally wrong” yet you have not made a useful point so far throughout our argument, nor have you addressed the other points I’ve made besides the Double Punch issue. Maybe skip the ad hominem and start arguing for once with numbers, it’ll be more fun that way.

Overestimating swordsmen? Do you even play this ToS? Swordsmen has gotten numerous buffs so far so now they can tackle content far better than a lot of other classes. They even solo a bit better than Wizards with the right set-up.

I got roughly 70 stamina already through equipment + 2 of the stamina quests, but it is not enough to spam Double Punch. I buy the big pills from Fedimian and if I want to keep using Double Punch throughout the dungeon I would have to use 20~30 pills for just a single a run. Cther classes that rely on SP can simply put a bonfire and max out their sp in no time, so SP potions are just used for emergencies (which rarely happens). Overall they’ll save more silver.

I have nothing to apologize for, but you certainly do.

#62

Monk is actually the best DPS in the game atm and needs nerfs

Now, this… this my friends, is absolutely wrong. Dunno why this guy keeps arguing when he literally knows nothing about the meta game whatsoever. He clearly doesn’t play Monk either if he thinks this way. kToS Monk players will laugh at your statement.

I’m not sure, but you do know it’s the year 2016 right? Because I feel like you were living under a rock until then if you had no idea about the changes of Monk from kCBT to OBT which weakened his/her DPS severely, although perhaps it is justified… There’s still a lot of wrong issues with the full Monk skill kit though that should be addressed.

#63

lol. Imagine a nightmare scenario in which a guild has 4 parties.

PARTY 1
Rodelero C3
Rodelero C3
Rodelero C3
Any Wizard C1
Any Wizard C1

PARTY 2
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk

PARTY 3
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk

PARTY 4
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk
Monk

etc.

Parties 2-4 will get all the boss cube loot and this guild would easily be able to monopolize every world boss drop on the server. Monk DPS with mindlessly spamming double punch can’t be competed with so they’re never at risk of losing one.
And of course they’d also monopolize the guild battle TP rewards for obvious reasons.

#64

i just realized one thing abt monk. you can use his skills while jumping in the air. so far its the only class i seen that can do that.

#65

imagine a nightmare scenario

Wait wut.

You are not making any sense at all. I couldn’t even pass your post off as a decent argument for your points.

  • Why are we talking about a nightmare scenario that is nearly impossible to pull off? You really think there’s a guild out there housing Monks as 3/4 of their members? What would be the point of that?

  • Where are the DPS comparisons between other classes, like the famous PD world boss killer build recently posted here in the forum?

  • What if we get 15 of those instead of 15 monks, would Monks still fare better or would the boss be dead by the time the Monks could even pull off a few measly Double Punches?

  • How can you straightly deal against burst with the slow damage building Double Punch? An Elem C3 can basically do 20x the normal damage of a Double Punch with some of his/her skills like Meteor, so what if we get 15 elementalists casting it at the same time, along with a bunch of other abilities such as Hail, Frost Cloud, or Magic Missile? Do you still think Monks could beat them then in “DPS”?

  • How do you input external factors (i.e. World Boss difficulty, capability to be able to use Double Punch half the time without getting killed, etc) into your “nightmare scenario”? What if there are a couple of Monks in the flock who focus on support than boss killing?

  • What’s the point and existence of Rodelero C3’s and Wizard classes in a non-Monk party, and will they even get loots from World Bosses in this case?

  • And why are we only talking about World Bosses when the Monk skill kit and role is the one being questioned here?

I think it’s safe to say that you’ve ran out of things to say by ignoring almost every reasonable point I’ve made in our argument.

Just concede now and don’t embarrass yourself further.

#66

The real question is what the point of all this ■■■■-waving is, because you both look ridiculous.

As for Monk, I just got to Circle 1, so I’ll get back to you on that.

#67

fact is if 15 of those monk could use energy blast together and focus in a single target it could blow up a planet like a deathstar. the magnitude of the energy so immense, the planet will…implode.

#68

The irony of this statement is that butting into an argument in an attempt to belittle both of us is just as much dickwaving as we did.

If you wanna make yourself look mature, you chime in and add your own opinions and ideas, not nab a poor attempt for an insult to both parties. If you got to Circle 1 already then you should already have impressions. Please do tell, unless you wish to flaunt more, of which you’re free to leave like mrdurben who is barely even contributing anything to the discussion.

#69

What’s the point and existence of Rodelero C3’s and Wizard classes in a non-Monk party, and will they even get loots from World Bosses in this case?

Oh god you know nothing about this topic, why are you posting?

An Elem C3 can basically do 20x the normal damage of a Double Punch with some of his/her skills like Meteor

More proof you know nothing about ToS

If you’re not even familiar with damage types and some of the important buffs/debuffs for them- could you kindly not pretend you know anything?
You’ve never even looked at Circle 1 Wizard ffs.

Level 10 Meteor fully charged is 400% MATK + 3229. 90 second cooldown. 10 second cast.

Double Punch is 200% ATK + 1326. 0 cooldown or cast.
Double Punch against a debuffed target is 800% ATK + 5304. Still 0 cooldown or cast.

#70

What is your build and equips? You seem to be doing it wrong.

No, they aren’t also support classes. They should out damage you.

You admit it is a staple ability, you build your gear and attributes around that. You should have maxed priest attributes when you were a priest.

You could be a Chaplain and be forced to use Cafrisun set for eons, count your blessings.

#71

I really wish I had taken some videos of my CBT monk bro :confused: I was outdpsing alot of people with that guy! dungeons went smooth, killing packs was easy.
He was also very very far from being optimized haha, had bokor c1 and sadhu in the mix!

Some boots have like +25 stamina on them btw!

#72

how do you guys even use DP? maybe you are using it the wrong way.
for my experience this is what i do. i 1st hit normal atk and DP, before the all the number finish popping in the air im abt to attack normal again and then DP. just rinse and repeat.

definitely the meteor vs DP argument is wrong, cause you got to factor in normal attack just because we can do it and wiz cant do that while channeling.

#73

You missed the point, so I’ll state it plainly: The only person here who cares about your ego is you. You can go on as many passive-aggressive tirades as you, but in the end, it’s a waste of your time, because the other guy can just leave, and you’ll impress literally no one who happened to come along. My statement wasn’t to make myself look better than either than you; again, that’s your ego talking. It was to tell you that you both look like idiots, and it’s also undermining whatever benefit that could be had out of this topic.

If your aim is to actually encourage discussion about something you perceive as a problem, fine, but leave it at that, as no one’s interested in you trying to show how intelligent and mature you think you are, and the harder you try – and you’re trying really hard right now – the less you look like either.

You’ll figure that out on your own one day, but you’re better off figuring it out today.

Now, before you warm up for another attempt to peacock at me, remember the part I said about the other guy leaving. Have a nice day, now.

#74

who are you referring to?

#75

What I’m implying about C3’s and Wizard classes is that, even though they can amplify a Monk’s damage, who the hell would attend a world boss battle where they won’t be dealing damage and just amplifying another party’s damage?

Oh and you went completely over the rest of my points? Really though… How about addressing the comparison between Monks and magic DPS cleric classes (Druid, Krivis, PD builds)? You went over them, again.

Also you forgot Quick cast to reduce the casting time, Quick cast attribute to further increase damage, and the variety of Elementalist skills like Frost Cloud, Hail, etc. that will be cast. Add Warlock abilities in the picture for more DPS. Monks are just stuck with Double Punch, and an occasional Energy Blast or two. Their other skills are more for debuffs, and some gimmicky invulnerability skills where you can’t even do any damage while casting them.

And let’s not just compare them with Elementalists, no, be surprised and find that almost everyone else can beat them in terms of DPS too. And again, the point of the very post that I made is that, why should we go Monk when we can clearly go for a route that deals much more damage or provide better support (Druid->PD builds or Paladins) for Cleric classes?

Why do you even think KR’s tier list indicates Monks are average tier? And did you know that Monks were buffed in almost all of their damage sources in a recent KR patch? And you still think Monks are broken and should be nerfed, when IMC figured that Monks needed a well-deserved damage buff just recently.

#76

What is your build and equips? You seem to be doing it wrong.

Your day to day average equipment. Since I utilized most of my money leveling attributes, I couldn’t gear myself as much when I hit level 150. Note that this post was over a week ago and it’s very different now. Averagely it’s 4k~6k based on the enemy. Decent now but I’m still not seeing the strength of it.

No, they aren’t also support classes. They should out damage you.

Yes, you have a point. But then we have stuff like the Cleric’s Krivis>Druid>PD builds that outdamage you while providing top tier support. If they’re leagues better, might as well just ditch the Monk route right?

You admit it is a staple ability, you build your gear and attributes around that. You should have maxed priest attributes when you were a priest.

I have already maximized most of the attributes except for a decent amount of Monk skills due to lack of silver. Still, they’re at suitable and decent levels. Now, Plate Mastery’s stamina increase is actually lower than you may think it is. It’s around 10? or maybe 15? by the time you max it out. Now 10 or 15 stamina is just about 5~7 Double Punches. It’s nice, but you spend 30 minutes (or more at later levels perhaps?) per level on Plate mastery for 50 levels. See how long it would take to gain a measly 10 or 15 stamina? And how much silver it could cost as well.

You could be a Chaplain and be forced to use Cafrisun set for eons, count your blessings.

Chaplains are support classes and that’s what you should expect, harder leveling and reliance on certain gear. However most DPS classes can typically avoid having any powerful gear, and just overall get more powerful through better gear instead of simply lifting their limiting capabilities like Monk gear would.

#77

Fair enough, I admit I am getting heated but it’s what happens to me when my opponent in a debate is just spewing personal attacks instead of refuting my points with good, calculated arguments.

Ego is something everyone has and I’m sure you can admit it emanates from you. Just as you say it’s my ego that’s talking, I can also say it’s your ego that’s talking when somebody tries to downplay you, like I did. We’re both the same and I doubt you can deny that.

Early on I tried to encourage mrdurben to stick to a healthy discussion, you can see it clearly in my previous posts before the shitstorm started. I tried to ignore the insults and personal attacks that he includes in his posts, but everyone has a limit, and it went over me already quite a few posts ago.

The benefit of this topic is for me to give a statement, and to welcome anyone who either have different experiences or different viewpoints to argue whether or not my points are true, or if there are other factors that make it so that it balances out the negative output I’ve made initially. One good example comes from the few initial posts that made it clear that Monks are definitely a hybrid support class that can provide either support or DPS when needed. However I still have a lot of questions in my mind, most especially as to how the Monk, the jack-of-all-trades character, can compare to other Cleric classes that can simply do everything Monks can do, but better.

A bad example is technically what mrdurben said. Dismissing everything I say, I’m wrong because of my attitude to how I play, and it ends there, despite me laying down the numbers. Being the topic starter I learned nothing, so I initiate and see what I could find out factors that can disprove my statements, and he have tried to but included a bunch of nonsense personal attacks as well that just drove my patience away and it did become more of a popcorn-infested drama match instead of your gentle debate. But hey, it happens, and even sometimes it can be fun.

He is free to leave any time but I’ll be there to refute him when he posts, just because I want to. Nobody’s really forcing you or anyone else to read them.

I’m not intelligent, actually, but I do have a lot of fun analyzing stuff like this, and learning a bit more about how skills work and how they fit into the metagame.

I was hoping you start contributing now about your first impressions with the Monk, since talking about ethics or psychology just devolves the thread further from its actual point.

#78

I feel atm Monk needs future Physical cleric circles to make it shine. Since you have to build your base with support classes it’s in this weird jack-of-all trades role. It does alright deeps and support, but clearly not as focused as a committed role to either. Once there are more physical deeps cleric classes in future circles, the monk’s kit or perhaps the idea of a physical deeps clerc will shine more?

Sorry I kind of moved the scope of this thread to the future. I feel most of what needed to be said has been said. Monk is a fun flavorful choice for someone who wants to play a physical deeps cleric, and doesn’t really care too much for party identity/comparison to other classes i suppose.

1 Like
#79

Monk C1 has a really nice DPS. But it’s too reliant on your ping.

With 300 ms ping, my double punch spam is about 1/3 the DPS of someone with < 90 ms ping

It’s riddiculous. Just the ping ruins the whole class for me.

1 Like
#80

To much rant about damage this and damage that
how about run monk as phys boss tank, since iron skin is same as petalsta high guard with bonus refleck damage /actualy it s 100 times better in lv 15
dont forget safety wall and golden bell as filler
the problem is no provoke skill aukuras from krivis can help a little tough