Tree of Savior Forum

We're not sheep... [1:1 Trade rant]

General Discussion
#23

By “there’s already a system in place for the RMTers that’s a better alternative than the restricted feature.”, I was referring to their use of the Auction House to transfer silver being a better method of transaction than using the 1:1 Trade even if it was available without the Token. They can much easier gain and sell Silver than they can gain and sell rare items, which will have less potential upon completing the transaction.

That’s horrible, actually. If the price continues to raise thanks to the RMT’ers and their legion of bots, then not only do people have to pay to unlock trade, but they have to pay millions to trade if they’re not doing it with real money which would make the term “paywall” even more strong for this since the Token price gets higher while the amount of Silver a legitimate player gains from playing the game stays the same. RMT’ers are running groups of Bots to gain their Silver, not assigning humans to do it for them. All they would do is adjust their prices to be worth more than the Token. They do this all the time.

Token: 500k for $18
RMT’er: 900k for $15
Token: 1m for $18
RMT’er: 1.4m for $15

The problem is that the rationale people are using for this doesn’t result in a positive outcome for the game. I’m actually against cosmetics-only to be honest, since this game doesn’t provide enough customization options to make it a worthy income model. The EXP boosts and extra benefits that the Token provide are necessary at the moment, it’s just that the Trade function isn’t a part of that.

IMC already stated their rationale on the news announcement yesterday that I linked in the first post and quoted. As you can see, it was responded to, and it falls short.

This is the better solution:
#Allow non-Token users to trade.

3 Likes
#24

(Sorry, didn’t read all post …)

The main sad part is … IMC is nearly f*cking the whole community with thoses trade/market restrictions. A game with grind, farm and party … Teamplay. Guilds. But … Well, doesn’t matter, you’re gonna need to do all by yourself anyway, you can’t even CORRECTLY help your friends (or be helped by).

Only because IMC can’t do well enough against gold (silver) seller and did get this strange idea …

One does wrong, All get punished.

(And does not even efficently stop the botting silver selling)

Ps: Thoses servers bugs, and divers bugs, in Beta where fine, but to see the SAME ones months later … After giving our money … Can make us sad too.

1 Like
#25

When “whiners” get tired of complaining and optimistic players start complaining…

1 Like
#26

Change it to we are not whales.

1 Like
#27

What then, to you, will result in a positive outcome? Throwing a rant as you have done in this thread?

I went back to re-read the announcement, and I agree with you that they did not really answer their initial question about 1:1 item trading. The announcement was defending the reasons to use Token. It mislead me to lay out the rationale for the use of Token, when the actual topic is on 1:1 trading.

1:1 trading can still be implicated in RMT transactions. While delivering silver is out of the question, they can sell items directly. Admittedly this is far more inconvenient, less efficient, and somewhat more complicated to deliver goods, but it can still be used to RMT. I just don’t see too much barrier (besides potential) for them to start listing Arde dagger / vubble fighter blood etc on their RMT shops.

1:1 trading will eventually be enabled (I think), probably limited to token users. So the main problem will be to enable 1:1 trade for non-token players.

I am really ambivalent about this issue.

Arguments for enabling 1:1 item trade for non-token players:

  • It cuts out 1:1 item trade for legit players
  • It’s a basic MMO function
  • The damages it can cause by RMT is probably limited (unknown)

Arguments against enabling 1:1 item trade for non-token players:

  • Token needs a differentiating feature to have value
  • It cuts out non taxed 1:1 item RMT transactions
  • Every legit player is expected obtain a token (paid by silver or TP)

(I must be missing arguments here but I’m too tired to think through. So excuse me if this list is extremely incomplete.)

Thinking this over, I do lean towards enabling 1:1 item trade for non-token players. The damages is likely limited. And not being able to farm rares together as a group (token or non-token) is just too much of a turn off for MMOs.

If they really want to shut out RMT completely, they must at least allow 1:1 item trade for party drops. But that still limits veterans to gift items to non-token players, so it is probably better to just enable 1:1 trade for non-tokens.

But of course… this is IMC’s game, they might just decide that 1:1 trade is supposed to be a premium feature… F2P players aren’t completely excluded to it too, as they can farm and buy Token through the AH, in a sense contributing to fighting RMTers in the process. Of course, with a significant annoyance.

Either route they pick. They will have to face the consequences of their decisions. I think the only thing we can do is to show them the worst outcome for enabling 1:1 item trade for non-token users, compared to the worst outcome of not enabling 1:1 item trade for non-token users.

#28

People need to see more of the detailed debate and discussion here than remaking endless arguments on General Discussion

#29

Because that directly inflates the economy. Exactly what the Fed is doing these days.

Yes, but it can still be implicated in RMT transactions. IMC seems intent on taxing all 1:1 item trading thus far. I can’t say I like that, and I am unsure if it will actually bother RMTers all that much when the AH is a perfectly good method to sell silver. Maybe IMC believes that they can shut down RMT transactions with their AH security, and avoid the eventual shift of RMT transactions through 1:1 item trading.

I’m not sure if you understood what I was trying to convey. greedy.gamer was asking if I supported the restrictions on team stash. And I said that I was for (not against) unrestricted team trading. i.e. no potential loss on team tading. I added that the only downside of this implementation would be that demands for items will drop somewhat.

You are entitled to your opinion.

#30

Everything that involves interaction between players can be relate to RMT trading, literally.

Even if they cannot trade, people already buy boss carry run, power leveling, or just simply buy an account with top gear.

All IMC is doing right now seem to me that they just blind themselves to that fact and keep telling themselves they are covering everything already, while in fact it is not (proof by bots running rampant around here).

Even in games without a currency (like Path of Exile) people still go around and buy stuff with real money, and there will be farmers selling to them.

You CANNOT prevent that, it’s simple as that. You can just MITIGATE their numbers, but not by systematic approach, because similar to players, botters/farmers can learn to adapt too. The best thing you can do is regularly check and ban them (or that thing IMC classified as “primitive”)

Heck even big companies like Blizzard couldn’t prevent that, why IMC thinks they can is beyond me.

#31

I agree. So far there is no systems that can defeat bot / RMT. As discussed in another thread:

There’s no way to stop them completely, and systems implemented generally harm the legit players more than the botters / RMTers.

#32

Good news IMC has decided to enable 1:1 trading for non-token users.

Hopefully its not some kind of gimmick.

#33

My issue is with the trade restrictions, not with the token.

#34

You mean you want silver to be traded 1:1?

#35

Things i would like

Team transfer to not lose potential

Team Transfer for silver or a shared silver pool between your team

The ability to price items on the market as i see fit without imcs price brackets

The ability to receive my silver after a sale and not have to wait 48hrs so IMC can pretend they are catching people

The ability to trade boss cards

The ability to trade monster gems

Honestly with the team storage changes i mentioned i don’t need to be able to trade silver. I think would think the game would be better with a free trade system, but i could live without silver trade if thats the compromise i have to make.

#36

Team transfer is being worked on.

Item price bracket will see no change for the regular items.

the 48hs will eventually be reduced.

No idea bout boss cards / monster gems. Likely won’t be changed.

#37

Yea they said change they never said how, for all we know imc is adding a silver fee. Ill hold my excitement till i see the result.

Right now its not a big deal because you can’t buy and sell mats but if they ever fix that then these brackets would be a pain in the ass.

Maybe, there is no guarantee that will occur, once again will hold my excitement till something happens.

We will see depends on how much complaining we do.

Also the reason i expect little from IMC is because they had a good system in beta and progressively made it worse, so i will fight till the market/trade system reverts to that.

#38

I don’t think IMC will ever allow reselling of mats. The 1 times trade materials are a deliberate design, not accidental.

The beta system was no system at all. It was basically open to exploit from every direction imaginable.

#39

I know it was designed that way, but its a poor design

Yea Free Market works on 99% of mmos if it aint broke don’t fix it. Unless your referring to the class exploits and things like that, those do need to be fixed, but those same exploits are still present in our current build soooo… yea.

#40

Just curious, can i trade monster gem between my chars via storage?

#41

No u can’t… But u can transfer your gear to the char with gem and socket it then transfer it back to original char, i think…

#42

But I’m a sheep.

/20lolisheeps