Tree of Savior Forum

Warning: Do Not Buy TP - The TP "Fraud"

General Discussion
#121

I’m kind of sure they can’t limit payments on Steam. At least not so easily.

But coming from someone immature enough to lie to support and annoy them until they make your weapon be enabled for Team Storage after it was locked to character for an intended reason… then put many Lv.7 gems into the very same bugged weapon instead of waiting for it to be fixed… lying about something you don’t even know about wouldn’t be much unexpected.

Back on-topic though.

Steam refund:

Steam will offer refund for in-game purchases within any Valve-developed games within forty-eight hours of purchase, so long as the in-game item has not been consumed, modified or transferred.

Quick google on credit card chargeback period:

Chargeback periods vary by payment processor and by transaction type, but are typically up to 180 days or six months.

I’m quite sure they won’t ask you to wait 180 days and you most likely do not need to wait this much.

But let’s say IMC actually gives an ETA, what can go wrong?

  1. The chargeback periods varies by payment processors, that means an ill-intentioned user could search for a service with higher chargeback period. The result of this is that IMC would need to ask you to wait the maximum possible time, I’d expect you to need to wait those 6 months for lifting the limit.

  2. Per user ETA gets into a complicated area where IMC would need to be accurate with most payment processors and those gets updated over time. What if user X can get specific ETA and user Y can’t?

  3. Verifying identity with documents falls into the same problem, if they want to be safe they’d need to be able to verify the information from every country an user might request so. How to make sure X person’s document is legit? What if Y can’t be verified in a viable way?

Of course what’s done is done and it definitely would be nice to have an alert about the TP spending limit somewhere.

3 Likes
#122

Nice try kid

-Barely knew/played the game
-Proceeds to cash out like a whale
-Gets a random restriction (God knows where did it came from)
-Proceeds to throw tantrums
-???
-Profit

Moral of the story: Throw all of your cash to a game you barely knew/played

No, but this is how we want to treat immature brats.

6 Likes
#123

Which is all well and good. Except, unless IMC is violating Steam policy, and you can get Steam to investigate (in writing, of course). their words mean absolutely nothing.

As far as I can tell, Steam only distributes the client and handles the DLC and TP transactions. Otherwise, they have no say in what IMC does with their game.

#124

More like MrPayToCry

#125

Always such a mess with this TP verification thingy…

I understand IMC wants to limit TP so they don’t get scammed because of chargebacks (amazing option for the honest buyers, and a nightmare when used by scammers), I also know that verifying can take time and they can’t just bend the rules whenever they feel like it.
And while we all agree they should clearly explain they have such a system somewhere, like on their main page, on the recharging page, when buying TP or when claiming TP (or better: have the warning on several of them), what bothers me is that this guy has no way to get a legit refund unless he calls his bank for a chargeback. This isn’t okay.
He paid in order to get TP and spend them. He can’t spend them. There’s an actual, legit reason to it — okay. But if he decides he doesn’t want to wait, he should be able to get a proper refund.
He gave the money, he hasn’t been able to get the products he wanted in exchange. Any store would give back the money if the client isn’t willing to be patient or find another solution.
Both IMC and the guy are being honest here, so they should be able to get to a honest solution.
But…

  1. IMC isn’t telling him how long the verifications will take (even if as an approximation), which leads to the client’s harassment and insane impatience (justified, but still questionable) ;
  2. IMC isn’t telling him if/what he can do to help them verify (he did offer to send them his ID, bank info…) ;
  3. IMC cannot refund money.

I never understood the third one. How is it even possible for IMC not to be able to refund ? Even if it’s because they’re on Steam, they should be able to contact Steam to tell them to refund the client and then take the TP from the account… It just feels weird to me that they don’t have this kind of option. Not a “shady” weird, more like they’re making things much more troublesome for themselves.

@mrpaytowin
Like Seiran said, I’d advise you to wait a bit. Try to ask IMC for news about it like once or twice a week.
Also keep in mind that the staff, like Letitia who replied in this thread, cannot change or bend the rules, she doesn’t have that power.
I know that Letitia (as well as the other forum staff) are hard working and do their best to help, if they can make it faster for you, they will. But they cannot make miracles since they’re not the ones taking the decisions, so don’t be too impatient or disrespectful with them. It won’t make it faster for you, and it might kill the staff’s motivation.
If you’re too tired of waiting: just chargeback. It will probably block your account though, but after such a negative experience anyway, why would you still want to spend in this game ?
And if you want to play for free casually, you can just create another account.

He does whatever the hell he wants with his own money.

#126

Buy me some TP dude, I want a pretty haircut

#127

The point still remains. The TP was purchased now, something like 9 days ago? They continue suggesting “wait.” People think I’m acting entitled. This is funny to me.

Why?

Imagine walking into any store in the world. Spending money. And then have them tell you, “Oh, I know you just bought this. And I know you can see it right there in your cart. But get out of my store. Ill give you what you purchased in the future. Please wait.”

When you say, “Oh, that wasn’t disclosed. Can I Have a refund?”

“Absolutely not sir! You already purchased this, and its in your cart. Please wait more!”

They do not give a specific amount of time to wait. They do not do anything. They take your money and throw you out of the store. This is 100% inappropriate.

Any single person here who is suggesting this is “okay” is 100% either a free to play player, or someone who knows nothing about how commerce works.

They earned themselves chargebacks by trying to prevent them. This is why the game is dead. They are trying so hard to fight bots that they scare off real players.

And yet. Go to any zone that drops recipe items and you’ll see some Necro named XKCNdslDios farming everything. Everyday. Kill things before the necro does and it runs in a circle aimlessly until something spawns again.

And then, a real player joins the game. Supports the game with a few purchases. They then refuse to let the player use the purchases the player bought. And the community here - which I heard is the worst part about the game… how toxic the community is. Though, what did I expect. It’s a free to play game. #winners

#129

“those who abuse and overuse.”

I’ve never charged anything back in my life.

Until now anyway :wink:

#130

To be honest, mrpaytowin, let me ask you a sincere question.

The Steam refund period is 48 hours (2 full days). So you got 9-2=7 days in that counter, it’s probably not even a full week (168 hours). I’d expect you to have the limit lifted once you hit 168 hours or maybe 336 hours (2 weeks) or maybe ~216 hours (a week + 2 days if you exclude weekends).

If you were a company owner I’m pretty sure you would ask your company lawyer to find a way to prevent bots from abusing the cash system since you’re literally losing a lot of money due to the automated nature.

When this was an issue I can imagine the total amount of abused TP through servers was way more than an average user buys. I’m pretty sure it’s a serious issue.

Now, let’s say you, as that company owner and manager, along with your lawyer tries to decide on a policy that will apply to ALL users, no exception… You need to define a solid set of conditions which would consider many scenarios including: if a fraud account would, for example, buy things and sell in a way you can’t get solid proof to issue a ban on the buyer.

I honestly think that asking refund period+1 to 2 weeks (9, 11 up to 16 days) is actually pretty reasonable and you didn’t even wait for that.

Also… if your account definitely looks like a fraud account and you don’t spend TP like a normal user would, something’s still wrong. How would you properly deal with that? Remember: You’re making policies to be followed, not arbitrary decisions on the fly.

So, let’s ask you:
How many days would you consider reasonable for this verification if this was your company and you already have been a victim and these fraud accounts cheated over a thousand of dollars worth of TP things?

P.S.: Fun fact.

Your account was created on May 20 which is when you started writing your ticket.

I assume this was also the first day you bought TP. You bought them and couldn’t use them in-game, then proceeded to make an account and a ticket.

I’m checking Day/Day+1 to avoid timezone issues.

Account created - May 20. - 0 days.
Steam refund period over - May 22/23. - 0 days (refund period over)
Thread started - May 24/25. - 1/2/3 days.
Today - May 28. - 5/6 days.

Even if you consider timezone differences and the time between the purchase and when you found out about the TP spending limit it doesn’t add up to 216 hours (48h, refund + 168h, 1 week).

Inb4 you just need to actually wait only a few more hours but insists to keep complaining here instead of waiting.

Fun fact 2:

He is able to, STAFF clearly said it to him 4 days ago:

1 Like
#131

I want to correct you on this. Even if he had waited for a -month-, it won’t work. I would know, I did. Still got the ‘please wait’ reply.

Steam told him to contact IMC (One of his previous posts) lol.

1 Like
#133

This strawman tho. Where do you see anythijg about him throwing all his cash at IMC? You don’t have to use exaggeration to make a point here.

Also, people spend money on games they dont know much about or haven’t played all the time. With console games or other digital games. Difference is, you normally buy a game upfront and the refund process is more direct, whether you buy a physical copy out of the store or a 1 time purchase for a steam game.

The problem is the spending limit which a new player wont know about until after they spent money and are about to check out the cash items. The other problem is OP being belligerent to staff qhen they are doing the best they can.

#134

We have a few geniuses here in the comments - someone needs to hire them. we got a mathematician and a business owner. Lol

Every single person here who is pretending like they wouldn’t be mad about paying for something… and then refusing to be allowed to access the thing they just paid for… is 100% lying. It’s okay there. Have fun on your high horse :wink:

#135

So don’t buy any games at all. Got it.

#136

Is anyone even doing that though? Being mad/annoyed doesn’t mean being immature, you know… you should eventually learn to split things and to see the others’ sides.

You said your problem was fixed:

And for Steam alt accounts, it’s understandable that they are suspicious.

#137

I’m talking about the TP limit removal wait time. Related portions:

I waited for a month before even submitting my ticket.

Still got the “please wait further” delay, until I proved that I have a second account that was much older.

Edit: My ‘main’ account on steam also only has TOS on it. Some people don’t really use steam, you know?

Edit2: I had actually thought it was something on valve’s end (see my first post in this thread), but turns out it dosen’t seem to be.

#138

So a bit more than that is probably around the amount it takes for being able to, which also seems reasonable.

#139

Excuse me? A -month- is reasonable?

Even in your own estimate, you only gave two weeks.

A month is already more than double the time.

‘A bit more’, like another month?

Edit: To prevent you from misunderstanding again. My ticket that was filed AFTER a month from the initial purchase, was rejected. It was only solved -after- I brought in a much older account (2 years, launch).

Edit2:

With a 300 TP limit, please state how do you determine a “normal” user. 1 purchase of a Token + Costume and you hit the limit. 1 puchase of the battlebird or penguin and you instantly hit the limit. Normal user? What, buying warp scrolls and soul crystals?. I don’t want to be sarcastic, but this is just ridiculous. :heeey:

Edit3:

I am defending him because of people like you thinking this. I am telling you all right now, that the wait time is not as short as you think it is. It is more than a month.

I empathize with him because he is encountering the exact same problem that I had. Of course, I agree that he is much more impatient than I am, but I feel that I have to correct all of you that even if he had waited for another 3 weeks, there would be the same answer.

#140

I’m not going to extend this discussion but I already said to be 100% safe you need 6 months (which is unreasonable). I have no info on IMC side of things aside from what they told, a STAFF wouldn’t say few more days if it meant “few more months”.

I also think I don’t need to link to external sources since other players from this very same thread thinks it’s not 100% normal to jump into a game and start spending a lot of money, other services also require special procedures if you produce unusual actions with money.

If the user already met other qualifications it might just be days instead of months.

Like I said before your alt steam accounts looks like fraud/bot accounts and probably doesn’t meet any of the qualifications while mrpaytowin might look like a legit account.

These two sentences are pretty much self-explanatory. Time isn’t the only factor and “few more days” can only mean “few more days”.

#141

Thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion. We have taken everyone’s feedback into consideration and have taken further steps to ensure that newer players are aware of possible TP restrictions.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and if you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to contact me directly.

I will now be closing this thread.

9 Likes
#142