Tree of Savior Forum

Wabblet's High Level EXP Rate Feedback!

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#1

Hey guys Wabblet here! This is a feedback of probably the most popular topic during beta and even after beta has ended, EXP rates.
Before I begin, some of you may not know me in the game. I reached one of the highest levels during the iCBT, level 102 and would like to share my thoughts on EXP rates. There is plenty of talk about EXP rates, some say it’s perfect and some say it is too low. How many of those that commented have actually tried to play the game and get to at least level 50 besides complain about rates? I would like to say, not many. So here is my two cent on the EXP rate and what needs to be changed/left unchanged. The method of play style to get that level was majority party grinding, so my feedback will consist of mainly party grinding!

I will start off strong, the grind is easy and the rates are fine. The current problem with why everyone is having trouble leveling at a fast pace is because there is too little choice of optimal grind locations within a map, let alone an actual optimal grind place for certain level brackets. With the current rates, there are levels where you reach a “wall” that causes you to find another grind spot-simply because the current area isn’t giving sufficient exp to you/your party to level at a fast/decent pace, even rare blue mobs starts to give low exp.
Level bracket consists of: [1-30] [30-50] [50-60] [60-70] [70-90] [90-100] [100-110]

There are easy changes to fix this “wall” issue and allow the general population to gain levels faster. All that I listed needs to be implemented in order for the population to level at a good pace without changing the exp rate.

  1. Put at least 1-2 optimal grind spots for every map or at least more than 1 per level bracket. I don’t know if this will affect the servers because more data is needed per extra mobs but something needs to be done. At level 90, my party and I had a lot of trouble getting to level 100. We couldn’t find a place to get efficient exp to level at a decent pace. If we were to grind at the location we were in, it would take us approximately 1-2 hours to level once. We searched for hours for a location to grind… but couldn’t find a single optimal grind spot that had a good density of mobs for 5 man parties. Every map level 85+ consisted of 3-5 mobs per screen-after killing all the mobs per “Field room” you’d be left with pretty much 0 spawn. You would have to travel a good 20 seconds to reach the next set of spawns.
    We need the density and spawn rate at every map to be something like Tenet Garden north of the goddess. If you have never been there… Then I guess Miner’s Village east side before the bridge, it has a lot of vegetables…? Onions? Bulbs? =]
  2. More channels. I don’t know how frustrating it was for the people that was stuck leveling with the majority of the population, but one can imagine it was filled with people. Optimal grind spots had at least 4 parties KSing/Fighting for mobs, even blues. Your exp rate is greatly reduced because of that and frustration of being KS’d will cause people to stop playing. Allow Dynamic channel system. A lot of population = more channels. Low population = Low channel (At the very least 2)
  3. Field Bosses should give exp equivalent to a rare blue mob. It is kind of sad to kill a field boss to see that your exp bars did not move a pixel. You spent a good 5-10 minutes killing that epic field boss with your friends/party and all you get is loot and exp that you can get in 10 seconds. Loot is great and all but exp is just as important. (Btw I am talking about Field bosses in dungeons or those that spawn on their own, not by the party mission F6)
  4. Last but not least, rare mob spawn rates…? This is not something I really agree on but I can see it helping in terms of leveling and pushing the players to get to a certain level so they can move on to another grind location.

That is all I can contribute at the moment since I am very sleepy. I will go to bed now;when I wake up and think of more I will edit the page to fill in more of my thoughts. For now I will go cry about not being able to play Tree of Savior.
P.S. I miss you already GM Apple! Hope to see you soon in iCBT 2! Cant wait to play more ToS hardcore again!

Edit: If you are curious about the build i played during the beta here is a feedback/review of it, Enjoy =]
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/wabblets-3-3-archer-1-3-wugushi-feedback-review/35480

Edit 2: Some may say, Level 100 is still early-its 1/6th of being max level. It took us under a week to get 100 in iCBT. We didn’t know the grind spots at all. We had to spend a good 12 hours or so to constantly find grind spots.
I can absolutely guarantee you next beta if the team is the same, we can reach level 100 within 3 days. At most 4. If they decide to implement the things i listed, we can definitely reach 100 in 3 days.

Edit 3: Apparently there is a Dynamic channel system in play already. I wasn’t aware of it since the places i checked on our previous grind spot had the same amount of channels at the time i checked. I was informed it actually did change to either more channels or less. Perhaps there needs to be a system to check what the population’s level and it should create more based on that? Not sure if its possible to make that kind of system but hopefully GM/Developers can get an idea of what i mean! =]

Edit 4: Try to keep it civilized please! We’re all trying to make the game better by giving ideas and methods to the developers to see. Perhaps it’ll spark ideas for them. Please refrain from the insults and flame war >.<. Remember, if you don’t have a constructive feedback, then don’t say it. Saying something doesn’t work or you not liking something without backing it up is a waste of time. Please take it somewhere else >.>

42 Likes
Please don't listen to the casual players
#2

I feel the same about a lot of that. Hope something is improved, more leveling areas variety and stuff would be nice

#3

I absolutely agree on your points.
But I also think that increasing the EXP rates a notch will not hurt either.

But wait a second, did you grind your way to level100 together with a GM?

2 Likes
#4

I agree, it was easy to grind when ahead of the curve, but the more you fall behind, the more competition you have, and the harder it gets to get ahead again. Of course in release we won’t have a deadline/wipes so it’s not so bad. Greater spawning density and more grind locations are a must.

Also,1-2 hours for a level between 90-100, i’m jealous. Because of how much competition there was at 6X it took me 9 hours to get from 61->62 when it only took me 30mins at best before that point.

Forgot to mention, what are your opinions on archer? I saw your Wugushi stream and it honestly seemed like you were the weakest class of the party damage-wise and utility-wise by far.

#5

No Kill5link i did not grind my way to level 100 with a GM. :open_mouth: That sounds fun, to get all those buffs from GMs… =P

#6

Yeah i figured the lower level was having a lot of trouble in terms of leveling fast since from time to time i would visit those areas we’ve grinded in. When i went there me and my parties would laugh at the population and the amount of parties in one channel.
In terms of my opinion on the build i went, i wrote a pretty long review/feedback of it. Take a look when you have the time =]
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/wabblets-3-3-archer-1-3-wugushi-feedback-review/35480

#7

I have a better idea.
Minimize the grinding part of the game since its extremly boring.

1 Like
#8

I don’t agree with minimizing the grinding part. I’m not here to flame you but think about it for a second-what game have you played that doesn’t consist of the word “grind” when playing it? Ever heard of Quest grind? That still uses the word grind. Do you want to play a game where you can afk and get max level? Not that i’m bashing you, but i just want to say this, the players now-a-days are spoiled by the modern games;we no longer want to work hard for things, we want things to be gifted to us. Long story short, a lot of people are getting lazy.

If ToS was a game where you can get from level 1-600 (If thats the max level, could be 500) in 1 week… I can assure you, you will still quit the game because you have reached max level and the game isn’t interesting anymore since you are done leveling and there is little content to do.

But for anyone reading this, grinding is actually the fun part in this game. I understand some are anti-social, some just love soloing and some may not have a lot of friends that play online games. I will tell you how i was able to be part of the hardcore group, just a small story of how it happened! =]

The process took awhile, i posted on reddit, posted in this forum and even steam community about having a hardcore group. The result was me finding 1-2 person that i felt was really hardcore. We grinded until 55 together and 1 of the 2 decided he didn’t want to play the game hardcore just for a beta. So i ended up sticking with 1 other person. We stayed grinding together for hours until roughly level 60s. We shouted “LF level 58+ for exp grind party” for 9 hours until we found our other 2 hardcore members. And eventually added the last member which we knew previously from grinding at another spot, from level 30-55. We stayed together since then until the end of beta. I don’t think you understand how amazing grind party is, it allows you to meet new people and make new friends! We eventually all logged into a Voice chat (mumble) and just chatted while we grinded, from time to time we’d crack joke on one another to keep the party going.

P.S. These people are EZ, ALISE, ENSIPID and STORM (Sorry, forgot your full name, i always call you storm xD) They are amazing people i met because of this game and hopefully in the future we’ll continue going hardcore for this game! Hoo-rah!

14 Likes
#9

A lot of the thoughts you shared are definitely on point. Especially about having multiple areas to grind for each level bracket. There could even be different maps leading to the same cities to offer more options in the same level bracket.

Also, I couldn’t have said it better about the boss fights. The exp from those were highly disappointing.

Otherwise, I do agree the exp was fair enough considering it was a Beta test.

2 Likes
#10

100 is still low level content.

1 Like
#11

This is an excellent, well-written post that present us with something other than mindless complaining.

Field Bosses being worth the hunt and better mob density could really make the progression feel smoother without sacrificing any of the nice, meaty progress itself.

2 Likes
#12

Very good thread.

I agree with all your points except for one: I do not think the solution is more channels, but instead a higher spawn rate for mobs in general. Dividing the players too much is not healthy for an open world game, and after a decade of instanced games I became sick of not seeing anyone ever in grind spots. I was actually happy to see them so crowded, but certainly not efficient EXP wise.

So, yeah. I believe the solution would be a higher spawn rate, the current rate increase by number of people is just not enough.

4 Likes
#13

On point dude.

I’ve stated in many threads that i was in favor of raising normal mobs exp a little bit because we all had a rough time going through some levels and almost no option on where to grind and just a few skills that make the grind boring as hell. After becoming Psychokino (Rank 3) with more skills at my disposal and a few more places to grind, the game became way more fun than it was before, and reading your idea right now i feel like it could work like a charm. Might worth a try, +1 to this.

Also, i share you thoughts on bosses exp, should be raised.

#14

It’s really not, grinding is the most interactive way that they can let players progress. Questing is just following a set course, at least grinding always gives the player/party their own option on how to plan their activities. For an MMO, freedom and longevity is a pretty major aspect that shouldn’t be disregarded just for the sake of quick, effortless levelling.

8 Likes
#15

  1. There’s nothing effortless about questing. Especially actually good quests

  2. A majority of mmo quests and quite a lot here just want you to kill a bunch of things. You were doing that already, so why not take a quest to give a little bump when you’re done?

  3. 100 is not a high level in a game with planned content as high as 600. 100 is when the game starts to open up and give you more options both class and world wise.

He didn’t even reach the real walls in the exp curves.

1 Like
#16

Please, all of you stop. The grind is ■■■■ and none of you can say other wise. The reason you guys were above the curve is because you wanted to be. You slept for no more than 5 hours a day and barely ate food. I know this because it was stated on a stream. Hell someone might have even taken a week off work for the beta.

The point is, not everyone has time or the ability to do that. I’m not saying it should be easy for everyone, but don’t tell me that I have to work as hard as you to make it to 100 or 200. This is why stamina exist in korean games. To stop people from playing the way you do. The death rate is OP as hell becuase of the mantality that people have to work hard and grind hard to be number 1-100.

14 Likes
#17

Milk here saying well put!! More than one channel & at least two high mob density areas per map would be a big help to the lvl progression without having to change the rates. (The dramas that ensued from parties arguing over a decent area were not cute…)

The grind was only a problem for me because I was rushing to do it in only 5 days so I never took enough time
to ease up and relax from it like I’m sure I will in the live version. (As fun as it was being near the top of the leader boards i’m not really that hardcore competitive. lmao)

I’d find myself grinding for hours and hours and then being burnt out about the game, but then the next day i’d log in, explore some maps & fall in love again. Meeting people and exploring new places/fighting new monsters was definitely the highlight of the beta for me.

(Edit: Since I don’t want to get flamed, it’s more that I don’t mind the grind and the game potentially taking many months to a year of reaching max lvl, to be honest that’s pretty neat to me… but I understand where others are coming from and wouldn’t mind if they increased the exp rates either. Especially if it’s to facilitate just the earlier part of the game.)

1 Like
#18

There are plenty of P2P games that have questing from lvl 1 to max.
F2P games also gets filled to much with KTR (Kill 10 rats) quests.

A game should take a long time to get to max (post wow 1 week is way to short)
Ive played several games where it has taken over a year to get to max where you constantly have had things to do other then grinding the same spot over and over.

A huge majority of the western market playerbase are not fans of grinding, we rather have quests and a storyline to follow.
We just dont like the boring repetativness that is grinding.
We dont mind if it takes a long time to level however.

I do like the boss quests though, should be more of them. Boss mechanics could be a bit better though, they are all pretty much the same.

1 Like
#19

Grinding is the equivalent to watching paint dry, that’s how boring you people are.

Old people must love you boring chumps.

1 Like
#20

this is a beta you were missing missions and quests they did not provide the game you wanted they provided the one they wanted to get worked on. nice guide thoe. :wink: