I am not completely sure I understood this. Are you saying to make it impossible to sell loot to NPCs? Then where would the Silver even come from in the game?
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
No need to remove NPC selling, just work with the token privileges and percentages; ill use an example:
You get a drop, which you can sell for 60 silver at the NPC, (60% value), u can also sell it at the AH (20% Tax No-Token), making it a 80% value.
Then Token users can sell the item to a NPC for 80 silver (80%) and sell it at the market without Tax involved.
I dont know, thats one way to increase token usage and limit bot usage, and if they keep using bots, they will be paying 1 token to make it faster, but still they will be slown if they want to take the 100% from it, because they have to wait for the items to get sold at the AH, hence slowing them down.
There might be other solutions, but yeah i think this one would be good 
I agree. More gold (well, technically silver) sinks is always better. But my point is that if you remove selling to NPCs there is literally no Silver income in the game, and thus no one will have any way of earning Silver
I’m not 100% sure I follow you here. I understand what you’re saying, but that’s the system we already have for the most part, right? The market already works with a different tax for Token users. Just not for NPC selling
Your argument makes no sense OP. It surprises me that so many people agree with you.
You mention FFXIV as an example where there’s many bots, yet FFXIV is also a game where the bots pay for their time spend playing the game.
What on earth makes you think that botters or currency sellers wont buy tokens here? Worse in fact, since they can be bought with ingame currency anyway.
The group that is hurt the most by draconic ‘‘anti-botting measures’’ (lets face it, the no 1:1 trading and market limitations has nothing to do with preventing botting) is the human legit playerbase. Not the botters/currency sellers.
2 Likes
Yeah, but its tweaked the way auction house is more important than NPC selling, slower with higher income.
Might be easier talking with total values (which i should have done in first place, sry :S) : You sell 1 item at the NPC (100% cost), either you can sell it at the AH ( market value with a 10% tax, definetly will be higher than NPC value); or either be a token user and sell it at the NPC with a boost (120% cost) or selling it at the auction house (market value without taxes).
This taking in mind that the cost on the market of the items reaches percentages higher than 120% cost, which definetly will do if npc gives low money per “effort”
1 Like
Yes. There’s a bunch of ways to get silver into the pockets of players.
1:Regular quests(with actually hidden ones giving extra silver)
2:Dungeon area events(Like legwyn family and Mausoleum Chapel thingy)
3:Instanced Dungeon mob silver drop(INstanced mobs would start granting alot of silver, same goes to bosses)
4:Storyline quest(following the regular quests purpose)
5:Daily quests
6:Instanced Missions. In icbt2, the purpose of those were to obtain some fun equips, like Vulvuzela and such, they could just give it a money incentive instead of the exp one, like what they’re doing in kTOS
7:Crafting recipes and selling those items to other players
8:Achievment goals
9:“Clear Area reward”, where you’ll get it when you kill all of the mobs in that area and explore 100% of it.
10:As I mentioned, regular mobs would also drop silver, but a low value. Making it so being in a Party also increases the amount of silver mobs drop is also a good idea, whereas the increase rate depends on the map lvl(also to avoid botters, they don’t seem to do well at all against high lvl trash mobs).
11:PvP arena rewards, one of them being Silver. With bigger rewards if you’ve remained in top20 or so for a week/a couple of days.
12:Guild activities, whatever they are/are going to be.
13:Field bosses.
I’m planning to elaborate more about this tomorrow, probably will create a topic in the suggestion area of the forums.
3 Likes
Interesting. Not a bad idea, but wouldn’t that just make bots farm these methods instead for Silver?
I think they’d rather just go bot another game if it comes down to make bots to do quests for money xD
Sadly I noticed those type of entitled players started to appear here since the annoucement of Founder’s pack. Those restrictions hurt more the player base than protect.
An item you must pay for to unlock basic functions as a means to limit unsavoury types from abusing the game? I’m in. The reason being that imc can profit off of them regardless and hopefully have a better safe guard/method in the future.
Even if they don’t its their restriction that they devised, it generates revenue, is an annoyance to botters (and free/tokenless players 2, sry ppl), yet it’s simple to apply, has added benefits for imc and the paying player base. I see both sides of this and all I can say is I’m on team #suckitup and I don’t even plan to use tokens so, life ppl.
Ffxiv tells us that regardless of the pay model, bots will get in. Pso2 tells us that strict player restrictions help curb that. I see a combination of the two and bots will still be in ToS regardless of tokens. However the way I see it might as well bleed the coded bastards for all their worth, cause a bunch of f2p bots will manage to ruin something in the economy. While the alternative is bots paying to try and upset the balance. You have my answer, go OP
1 Like
They will buy tokens here, absolutely. This dents their profits slightly, which is good, but no one here will claim pay walls stop them.
There are many draconian measures in place that are in addition to this - the total inability to trade silver, maximum of 5 market slots for token users (and 1 for non!), max sale prices on most kinds of item (to prevent gold sellers from buying items listed at impossibly high prices to move silver), all combine to inconvenience gold sellers in an extreme way.
But it will not stop them. All of this has been said before.
You are missing the most powerful anti-gold seller feature of tokens. They can be sold on the market. Individuals wishing to buy silver merely need to buy tp, buy tokens with it, and sell the tokens. This, more than anything else, damages gold seller revenue by sharply reducing demand for their services. (This also provides F2P players with a means of getting the “p2w” without paying.)
And if IMC starts ruthlessly banning illegitimate silver BUYERS… Then the demand will shrink even further.
2 Likes
Not being able to trade on PSO2 became fine when SEGA made FUN points alot easier to acquire via excubes. Tons of emergency quests can drop tons of excubes now. With “tons” of FUN points from converting excubes, you can RNG on scratch to get a Shop Pass. You can trade with friends with Shop Pass alone, they just have to buy from your shop and its easy to return the money by making your friend set a useless item so you can buy it and return the meseta at the same time.
This method cannot be done on ToS sadly because the item you set on shop will appear randomly between 30mins ~ 1hour(?), not to mention, there’s the ridiculous 30% tax.
What I would prefer instead is they copy Warframe’s trade system. Make silvers like credits, credits is just mostly for paying taxes and own benefits, not for trading. The only way to buy items from trade is to use cash currency. So basically, what I’m suggesting is, for you to trade/buy items, you need to pay TP.
This might sound like a bad idea at first but trust me. Once the cash currencies flows throughout the playerbase. Buying/trading items using cash currency won’t be a problem anymore. To keep the cash currency flowing, of course, it’s a given that the devs/publisher must do their best to keep the playerbase alive like how DE kept Warframe alive and still one of the top games on Steam.
1 Like
Why would they need 100% from it if it’s automatic? 80% is more then enough to not bother about those reasons.
I kind of agree that selling items to NPC is not the best idea, there shouldn’t be those “trash” items from the beginning, and every item should have it’s value.
The best way to gain silver should me quests/dungeons/boss fighting etc. Those are activities hard for bots to exploit.
Also I agree about silver sink system with lodge decorations, maybe add trophy system that will slightly increase damage against one type of monsters if you put it in your Trophy Hall (both Hall and Trophy slots should be purchaseable with silver).
Guilds can be a really great way to sink silver.
Making guild treasury to donate money here and then use for variois GvG activities will help to improve usability of crafter classes making them even more guild oriented, like Templar.
2 Likes
Another suggestion: hunting UNIQUE monsters will grant lots of silver while the amount will rapidly decrease with time. So first 200 will grant 150%, the next 100 100%, the next 100 90% the next 50 80% the next 50 70% and so on till the 20%.
So bots will have to be more intelligent in terms of farming and won’t be able to farm the same bor for weeks.
And combining it with removing expensive trash items from bots will help a lot.
1 Like
How do you know someone is illegitimate silver buyer/seller?
IMC has not enough staff to control buying/selling silver. They can only mechanically control getting excessive amounts of money through bots.
I’m not even sure that selling silver you earned by your own using avialble ways(are there any currently?) is truly illegitimate. And it can’t be tracked for sure.
Though it’s hard to turn into massive market because of all current restrictions. But adding default 1:1 trading(no silver) won’t help botters in any way, becauae both botters and silver buyers are usually token users anyway.
Overall I agree with some anti-bot features but some of them are overly agressive towards other players.
2 Likes
its ok guys, once game is fully public, they’ll be forced to change a lot of things, or make it worse, whatever.
game depends on playerbase, power is in their hands.
1 Like
This discussion has been crazy civil and nobody is being a raging idiot. Just wanna give props too all In this thread for that
2 Likes
The tried and true method to catch sellers is to examine transaction logs - you look for large amounts of silver moving between accounts that previously had no interaction (not friends, not guild, and so on), and then you look at the source account to see where its silver came from, and you’ll oftentimes find a bot network that way.
Of course I agree with the staffing issue - my OP said as much.
@dog_593
Thanks! The Socratic method is more aggravating than insults, anyway, so it’s really the dialogue of choice for sophisticated jackasses like myself.
Thread has been updated with important new info, the intellectual fruit of a few days of frantic internet flame wars - RMTers and botters have found an easy way around all of the current restrictions and they don’t even need tokens or 1 to 1 trading to do any of it. More info and a proposed solution here: