Tree of Savior Forum

Tree of savior really p2w?

General Discussion
#101

The thing is. I see articles like this and as a gamer. I think that’s all bullcrap or at least can be badly misinterpreted. He’s talking about mostly a card game and mentions out the gate who bad you can f’ up an MMO with P2W.

You want to see how you f’ up an MMO go take a look at PWE games. Remember how they completely bombed NWN Online? And didn’t meet their expected budget projection because they dun ■■■■■■ up?

Well I’ll tell you why cause I was there. Game was great. Looked good, played good, great design ideas, game was polished gold. A rival to WoW and any MMO on the market.

So I went and maxed a character went to go do end game dungeon and it was hard I was pretty happy. But 3rd run in that end game dungeon. Get one P2W player that enchanted all his/her gear. This person was just terrible, straight up short bus, god awful, full retard. Stood in the fire, face tanked all the things, completely crapped-the-bed. You couldn’t even see the bed anymore. The bed was gone. You just saw mountain of poop. Spawned by this complete a’ hole of a player. But you know what? That complete poop-biscuit sad sorry excuse for a gamer. Single-handedly carried the run.

Carried a run with players that’ve been playing MMOs since Everquest 1. Pushing for server firsts and all that dumb bullcrap lifeless gamers do. But that sin-against-skill player straight up carried everyone…

After that run I F4’ed and immediately uninstalled.

If you for a second think going full on P2W doesn’t turn your game into a sinking pile of tyrannosaurus dung you’re just to stupid to notice you don’t have any competent players left. Because why would anyone want to play a game where the difference between winning and losing is just how much money you wired to the producer.

“best practices” psh, at least Mr. William Grosso mentions the fact that you can completely f’ up an mmo doing this. Unless it’s an MMO with cards because for some screwed up reason anytime you put cards into a game magically all P2W becomes the best thing ever and no one cares anymore.

/endrant

Actually liked the article though I don’t think it applies to classical Korean style MMOs with very high gear caps like ToS.

edit: Censored it a bit staff_ethan is out and about! And I rather like my story.

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#102

No, I dont necessarily agree with it either. But I thought it’d be interesting to look at a different perspective.

And yes Raspy I was there for NW, from Caturday to about Mod9-10ish. I wanted to give PWE/Cryptic a chance to prove to me they were not what everyone said they were.

They failed like the Hindenburg.


LOL PWE

Once you’ve experienced PWE/Cryptic or My.com games, nothing surprises you much anymore in the f2p mmorpg genre.

#103

Yeah I just kind of used it as an excuse to rant… I had fun writing the story. I didn’t stretch the details on that one either… I was pretty choked about how that turned out…

#104

complaining about p2w isnt gonna do anything really. they dont care, the game is doomed to shut down forever sooner or later. by making the game p2w instead of fixing whats wrong with the game, is a easy lazy way to milk as much cash out of it as posible before the cash cow collapses. they are following the footsteps of Trickster Online.

with some luck the p2w aspect makes them enough money they decide to put a little of that to use to make the game better.

1 Like
#105

PVP is the competition of skills not money
when a PVP turn into silver sink hole, it is the worst balancing in PVP
PVP is about who’s have higher skill in a equal battle ground
money buy time is bad, but money buy RNG is worse

1 Like
#106

Mmm if you they weren’t Koreans I might agree with that. But they’re Koreans… And the top korean games right now are Starcraft 1, Warcraft III and lineage… Not Lineage II, not a prototype of Lineage III. The original Lineage.

Korean’s do this thing where they don’t stop playing the same… game… Until they die… They just keep going. Till the patches stop. Or they just don’t care that the patches stopped and they keep playing anyway. Cause they’re Koreans and they’re crazy.

Though, I suppose Westerners still keep playing EQ… So… I guess we aren’t so different. But last I checked EQ wasn’t our top played game right now. Pretty sure that’s LoL.

1 Like
#107

it is not about +5 or +10 give
it is about having advantages over other

a fair PVP should be complete isolate system from PVE
everyone have same level, same free stats points and free skill points to spend
everyone have access to same equipment, not limiting to 1 set but a variety of choice
Fair PVP should be the competition of how well the builds, how well the skill points and stats point allocated, how well the character make use of the chosen equipment sets, and how good the skill of the players are

Fair PVP should not be a competition of luck on RNG, should not be how much silver or real money invested

i got to mention GW2, i personally dislike this game, but their PVP system is definitely better than what we have in TOS

4 Likes
#108

Just roll a cleric ez win

1 Like
#109

the moment imc make gear not standardize anymore i just doing pvp for daily 50 point lol

#110

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#111

Side note, seifer got muted due to his bot promotion. Lul

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#112

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#113

I have no idea about if this game is p2w or not
But I hope it’s not because I am addicted to the game
And hopefully I’m not playing it everyday for 5-10 hours for nothing.

#114

No matter how much time is spent on playing or how much money is spent on the game…

IMC wins.

2 Likes
#115

of coz, i still need to farm eq for PVE content

#116

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#117

Because Sorien isn’t shitspewing everywhere? He’s actually smart in his ways of being a puppetmaster in the background. However he somehow thought he could level with a Korean company…? Not sure his train of thought even if they did actually talk to him, lol

In any case, everyone has their examples of P2W in games. My own being Elsword. I can proudly say I’ve played the game since it was in Korea (this was right before the KSSN fraud laws became mandatory on kNexon’s website), and I’ve kept my account since while playing with foreigners like myself.

Everything was marginally alright. There was special items you could only obtain either through cash shop or regular repeatables/exchanges that were decent. And back in Season 0/1, even before they updated the skill tree for the third time and gave access to secondary (B) slots and had you pay for it, everyone was on a decently equal footing. Fast forward an almost decade and now you have KoG absolutely milking people with events almost exclusively aimed at cashers with just something on the side for F2Pers.

Oh but Chill! You can buy everything and get those OP items yourself!

The market is entirely dictated on cashers. There’s so much in game currency floating around due to multiple abuses and exploits that the game that literally you can only do one or two things:

  • Farm certain dungeons/dailies ridiculously for weeks to even months to get enough in game currency for one item you’d want out of trade. Maybe you’ll get lucky and RNG your way out of it.

  • Cash and probably trade something for it. High demand means you can often overcharge what people consider the “normal” rates.

I mean sure, you could get to the result a casher could within a few months, but the casher probably already enjoyed their several months of not needing to farm as much or if at all for the things you spent hours upon hours a day to even trade for, if not desperate. And KoG loves this formula, because it preys on the weak and gets them more cashers at the end of the day. And then your gear becomes outdated and you have to do it allllll over again with little reprieve or jumpstart.

I can’t really call ToS P2W, not yet. However, why do I have to say not yet, when it’s fairly obvious that the route is as inevitable as death itself? Until I start seeing legitimate different effects and playstyles out of cashers on this game such as custom set effects that are entirely different than any gear itself (extra effects that aren’t cosmetic), then I’ll chug along.

#118

With real money you can buy these.

Some are best and there are no in-game versions:

  • Buy silver from Cash Shop lottery
  • Buy a pet that you can mount*
  • Buy best in slot bracelets / amulets
  • Buy stat reset points
  • Buy best potions in the game
  • Buy silver anvils that make upgrading cost 0 silver, saving millions
  • Buy enchant scrolls**

*You can get a pet you can mount with PvP points, however this would take you around 140 real life days to get and not missing a single day of PvP arena / Uphill Challenge.

**You can get enchant scrolls from certain dungeon cubes, but the chances are 1 in 1000 to actually get one.

In the future:

  • You will be able to buy Practonium from Cash Shop
  • You will be able to buy best in slot weapons / armor

All armor and weapons are weekly rentals, but regardless they are some of the best. They are also usable in PvP.

Conclusion:

Game is Pay to Win full force.

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#119

P2w came to stay, sadly.

The problem with more academic reports is that they are always too late with their forecasts and conclusions.

We are inside a new generational cycle(the CoD/EA cycle started to rot) and this new generation is way more open to p2w.This is a lost war.

#120

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