Tree of Savior Forum

Tree of Savior Game Engine Limitations

General Discussion
#1

Tree of Savior uses the same Game Engine that was self developed by IMC for Granada Espada which was launched in 2006. That means the game engine is older than 2006, over 10 years ago.

This current game engine limits future content of this game.

Don’t expect large scale pvp such as castle sieges, War of Emperium from Ragnarok Online, or anything of that nature. The proof is in the GvG currently in TOS. This game engine can barely handle 15 vs 15.

Don’t expect large scale raid content for same reasons as above. The proof is current guild raids. Our guild has yet to successfully complete a guild raid that involves killing a raid boss because the instance crashes every time.

This game engine is just difficult to update and patch because it’s using old technologies and outdated coding. I don’t have proof of that, but how else do you explain the new bugs every week or the reintroduction of bugs that were “fixed”? Last week was mouse mode breaking. This week is getting randomly kicked out of Saalus. Every single week, there has been some kind of new bug or an old bug reappearing even though there was no new content introduced.

“Tree of Savior is led by the “Father of Ragnarok Online” Kim Hakkyu (김학규) who was a lead designer of Ragnarok Online from 1998 to 2001.”

That makes a lot of sense because Ragnarok Online was terrible from 1998 to 2001 and did not become stable until after 2001.

The leader of Tree of Savior needs a savior.

12 Likes
#2

Sound logic and it is an unfortunate reality.

I understand that without a large development team, it’s rather difficult to update a game engine to where it uses better processing of information to include both the Client AND Server functionality in addition to the program itself.

Additional examples in the fact that even after disabling Steam Overlay, (because the rendering in this game is incredibly buggy), the 2D/3D mesh textures in this game are still only rendered with 1 thread which makes no damn sense in 2017 where my Galaxy S7 has multiple cores. I have 16 threads in my gaming rig…(Intel 5960X) with an overclock and 2 GTX Titan X’s, yet this game will drop down to 40-60 FPS just because there are 20 people on screen.

This doesn’t happen in The Division, For Honor, Black Desert, or literally any other MMO I play often which are much, MUCH more graphically and mathematically demanding than this game is.

This engine will forever be the bane of TOS until they update it permanently - Yet I don’t claim to understand Eastern marketing practices and tactics…(you know, which don’t really exist).

3 Likes
#3

They should stop trying to update the old crap and move to a modern game engine instead. Unreal 3 is a popular engine for Mmos and it works very well with older systems.

But this requires them to buy a license for the engine. Will Mr Kim spend the money for it?

5 Likes
#4

Once again, Eastern cultural limitations make them nigh-retarded when it comes to this crap. Very few companies from said part of the world will step out and use someone else’s Engine and would rather take a crummy one and Cash Shop money off of it till it dies than make a solid game that lasts for a while.

The worst part is the Unreal 4 Engine is FREEEEEEE. (They ask that you pay a Royalty Fee for whatever game you release however).

And it’s incredibly optimized.

Black Desert uses its own engine and it’s actually very solid and beautiful because it’s not that buggy…

Trion used the Cry engine for ArcheAge and it seemed to work for them despite minor issues.

Really, I’m not sure why they don’t update this game’s engine. It has so much potential to make the 2D sprite with 3D effects look even better and have much less draw on the system.

#6

Well unless TOS engine makes use of Vulkan or D3D12 there’s no way to make it render with more than 1 thread because it’s technically impossible to implement such feature with older graphics API. The only thing it can do is to offload resource loading (which is partially done I believe), network handling and other calculations such as scene management, occlusion ect to other threads.

3 Likes
#7

but isn’t Rangarok Online much older than tos, and they can still have gvg with out random crash.

2 Likes
#8

Considering my Graphics card is kind of a potato but my CPU is super good and I get constant 60 FPS without drops if the server holds up, I’d say the engine let’s the CPU do all the work (which is actually quite common for Asian games).

3 Likes
#9

It is indeed CPU only, there is very little activity on the GPU. I forced the game to run on onboard graphics instead of discrete and literally no difference in performance.

1 Like
#10

That’s the issue. It runs on CPU only and to make it even worse, it runs on a SINGLE core. That optimization beta bullshit doesn’t even do much.

1 Like
#11

I find funny people blaming one thing that work well IF who is working with it know what they are doing.

This game engine is used even by Blade & Soul (I know, not a great title to pick).

I already said this on other thread about this.

The engine work well, even for old PC setup, it’s IMC who doesn’t know how to use it.

It’s clear as the day that they don’t know what they are doing, you can see a bit what the engine is capable in some quests.

Now let me just add something else here, since it seem you are confusing game engine with server files.

This is connection or codding between server-client, which again, is the Dev not knowing what they are doing.

So that means that Mr Kim is like and old vehicle, only start the engine when it is pushed for a while? If that is the case, then we might expect the same with ToS.

But I find it funny, if he had such experience on another game development, does this mean that he didn’t learned a thing from that?

I mean, I as an IT, had lots of weird stuff during my job, and after finding the real issue, I never forgot that, in fact, I made myself a mental checklist and use it even if is not related to the issue.

It would be the same for a development.

Just so you know, I don’t care if they end up changing game engine in the end, but in all honesty, this will limit lots of players, not all countries have conditions to be buying new stuff, dollar have different values in different countries.

If this engine make the game more available for low end PCs, I don’t see a problem with it.

Again, as I said above, the issue is with who is developing the game, not the engine, who is limited, is the dev team, they clearly don’t know what they are doing.

#12

A quick search shows that Blade & Soul uses Unreal Engine 3 for PC version and Unreal Engine 4 for mobile version.

2 Likes
#13

#14

Their site shows the Path Engine Logo there at the bottom.

I guess they changed it later but not in the site.

Titan Quest is supposed to use it too, but not sure if they changed.

In all honesty, what I said still valid, the engine might be old, but still good to use, in the right hands tho.

1 Like
#15

I believe Path Engine is for handling AI path finding in the game and it only play a small part in the whole game engine (render, sound, scripting, network, AI, ect).

Edit: http://www.pathengine.com/ Not a game engine but an AI path finding engine, which can be used as a module in a game engine.

2 Likes
#16

You’re right, so what is the actual game engine? They didn’t added a thing in the page or game client main screen.

Self-made one I wonder?

image.png2412×474 318 KB

The above is from the main page (game page I meant), fmod is for sound, so…

#17

Bandicam is for that F12 recording feature I guess.

Yes seems like IMC uses their in-house game engine. Their job description also mention in-house tools which support this idea. I guess at later development of the game for some reasons the key person who was the chief scientist of this engine left the company so now they have to deal with 7% improvements because the team still dont know how to deal with current engine code.

#18

It’s a possibility.

But can also be that, and in fact it is the most possible outcome, the one behind it may be Mr Kim, but the rest of the team can’t get the grasp of what they are doing too.

I mean, when you fix a bug, what you do right after is apply the fix to all the following patches to avoid it appearing again.

Also breaking something that was working before is something a dev team try to avoid with all their might.

And it’s clearly not happening on ToS.

4 Likes
#19

mr kim code in binary low level programming language

2 Likes
#20

bag game engine make the player quit. who want to have 1 fps when frost pillar tree is cast

#21

To me it looks like monsters don’t really take walkable terrain into account for their movement, hence why I find it quite hilarious that they say they use an extra pathfinding engine product when ingame the monsters can do stupid actions like running over unwalkable terrain or climbing unclimbable walls, which is something such a pathfinding engine is supposed to not do.
That “pathfinding engine” doesn’t really look impressive nor immersive when all monsters do is “directly move to player without caring about obstacles. You are allowed to walk through objects and glide over cliffs regardless of the actually walkable terrain”.

1 Like