Tree of Savior Forum

Transcendance System Feedback > what is wrong with it right now

This subject is a simple feedback, with some little explanations about how transcendance system affects right now a lot of build, making them either lose too much potentials at term or even become completely useless at term.

For me the biggest attrait of the game was build diversity. Let’s be frank 80 classes? 80+ CLASSES?!!! That was like the biggest joy of all a lot of players found when they heard that about this game. Calculating your way, and your stuff and your skills to find the best way of playing your own characters. Not the way people wants it, but the way you want.

But then with R8+ transcendance we discovered a new ammount of dmg on skills + a completely insane ammount of basic weapon multiplication which ruined it completely. You may not view why right now?

Let’s take some simple facts:
Before pre trenscend, you could play either with 3/1 Str/dex either with 1/3 Str/dex either with Full dex or even with full str (even if latest was somewhat the most lacking in dmg sometimes but could still have some proper use : beter concentrate / highlander block value etc)
But once transcendance system only one build became completely insane at term for dmg : Dex until crit rate cap, rest in str.
In a lot of games, crit rate as always been satisfying etc. But there was always a way to be its equal with a strength build technically.
Simple fact of why “at term” dex ruins completely the other builds:
6000basic atk with end game weapon.
Full str = 6 8000 atk arround (arrond 800 str)
Full dex = 6000 atk X1.5 because you gocrit cap to perma crit > so 9000 atk

So okay with str build we found out now str build is technically useless at term. What about int build? Magic can’t miss so full int or full con?
Full int = 6 800 atk arround again.
Full con = 6000 atk but so much hp that you become a magic tank.
For a loss of 13% dmg i don’t see the point of going int instead of con.

Finally an explanation with one of my exotic own build: chaplain+monk
pre-transcend : Auto atk > Double punch with whatever weapon and
stuff you would choose. So the build was solely build arround skill dots
of monk, control from them too and lastly magnus from chaplain and auto
atk as main source of dmg.
post-transcend : Double punch > auto atk starting transcend stage 4.
The build gets a complete turn arround, your biggest amount of dmg
you can get with filler is double punch, so you have to choose a physical
weapon mandatory (while before both phsyical or magical weapons
would have their pro and cons). Magnus will remain stucked on dmg
and so it’s falling in dps compared to other skills at each transcend stage.
Btw the difference is really big arround 8K more dmg on double punch than on autos.

Finally let’s talk simply about blessing and additional auto atk lines. By going
this way with full spr, you are both a support and still get a decent ammount
of dmg, not as good as rest pre trenscend hopeffully).
But post transcend what’s the use of blessing which gives + 500 dmg
when you have 6K dmg. When you had only 1-2K max dmg it was
really a good buff for all your team. Arround 25% upgrade in dps.
Post transcend means your team only get a 8% buff of dmg. So priest
dmg support falls really hard ^^

I dont think transcendance system in itself was a bad idea. A new type of
upgrade, that is hard to get but makes you abble to gets your character can be a good thing. But not in the fact that only one or two types of chars gets
it good and the others gets not enough from it to not have to reroll.
And lastly for me Transcendance system is a type of upgrade that is needed onlye once the game is technically “finished”, when all the classes have been putted, when there won’t be more levels but still new content coming. And it’s not that much “necessary” because new content could just be new stuff too.

With the class diversities, the fact that mixing classes your own way, with your own stats could bring a good build was so great, and got ripped appart by transcendance system. I’m not saying transcendance needs to be removed, with all the efforts people made to get it now it would be unfair to them. But i think it should be completely reworked, so it actually buff every build at the same efficient way. The dmg buff should maybe not only affect the weapon itself, but maybe the total ammount of dmg you deal : elemental dmg, atk, matk, crit atk, gems etc (with a smaller ratio of course). This would not yet resolve the unbalance of stats completely, but would at least give back the earlier balance that was much better than now.

Ps : a little thing that could make str becomes better : if crit atk wasn’t a flat dmg upgrade, but a ratio which multiplied dmg when you do a critical hit, that would mean a full str build crit a lot less than dex build, but it would deal much bigger critical strikes even if they are fewer. That could be the easiest way to balance str and dex without changing much. And finally there should be a way with full str build to be good to without doing any critical. Like abandonning critical possibilities to do better normal dmg that could still never attain the full potential of a crit atk but still have the same dps on paper.
Example :
Build 1 : Atk dmg = Z / Crit rate = 50% / Critical Multiplicator = Y
Build 2 : Atk dmg = A which is let’s say randomly 2/3 times bigger than Z atk dmg but can’t crit.
On the paper : Build 1 dmg = ((50 X Z dmg) + (50X ZXY dmg))/100
Build 2 dmg ) = 100X A / 100
IF Build 1 dmg = Build 2 dmg it brings out more possibilities for everyone
to build themselves how they like instead of sticking to a meta of stats.

Thanks for the reading, hope it was a good enough explanation :3

5 Likes

I do agree with you on the transcendence system being sort of a plague in the game, I do also think a rework on it would do something too.

Instead of the basic damage/defense of weapon/armor, it could work on the substatus like the one marked on the item bellow.

To make things fair, the increase couldn’t pass 10% or 20% (could be a choice in here one of the status or both in separated categories, ex: Weapon 10%, Armor 20%, Accessories 15%).

It’s just an idea, But i think it is not a worth system as of now tbh. But i do believe they will try to make money out of it in a better (or worse) way aside from Gachapon system.

1 Like

I think they just need to adjust %-modifiers AND attainability of the shards (or number required) to balance the transcendence system.
Maybe like this:

Each step an incremental increase of 5% beyond the last one:
Stage 1: 5%
Stage 2: 10%
Stage 3: 20%
Stage 4: 35%
Stage 5: 55%
Stage 6: 80%
Stage 7: 110%
Stage 8: 145%
Stage 9: 185%
Stage 10: 230%

or

Each step an incremental increase of 10% beyond the last one:
Stage 1: 10%
Stage 2: 20%
Stage 3: 40%
Stage 4: 70%
Stage 5: 110%
Stage 6: 160%
Stage 7: 220%
Stage 8: 290%
Stage 9: 370%
Stage 10: 460%

I think the first option would be more appropriate.

Really Transcendence should cap at stage 5 and maybe something like level 3 for armour and accessories. The grind for Blessed Shards is a chore, and the benefits offered are much too powerful, it completely divides the player base, the items themselves need adjustments and the monsters along with it. If I have to stage 7+ multiple pieces of equipment every time I just want to upgrade it will become infuriating, (well it already is that way). It changes the way equipment works now too. There is absolutely no reason to transcend items that aren’t currently the first or second best, there is no reason to spend time on Newt when I can just use Grynas for Lolopanther/Hasta, it changes how equipment progresses in a bad way. For those who really want an edge, a progression system like @Andraax suggests is the most reasonable, having smaller buffs for those who want to invest past Stage 5 or so.

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Well like i said on the post, already at step 4 of transcend + 100% of dmg, a lot of builds gets already nuked and useless because of it. ^^ So the % needs either to be really low. Either it needs to affect everything on your chars. Like transcend could be in fact a character feature, needing a hell amount of shards for each steps ^^

Limiting availability (needing a hell amount of shards for each steps) has not proven to be a good measure for balancing things (I know that from Trading card games like M:TG where they tried to balance the “Moxen” with rarity which didn’t work). Balancing usually means the benefit has to be subtle. Narrowing the effects also works well (like the benefit is good for build A, but less so for build B). Any game developer should (must!) read the articles of Mark Rosewater (head designer of M:TG), who provides much insight on proper game design (generally applicable to any game): http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/columns/making-magic

Yep anyway transcend system overall is too big to be acceptable in a game in my opinion multiplying by even more than X2 is already so unbalanced, and anyway like i said major problem is the fact that since it only affects a part of the weapon a lot of builds get affected by it and unbalanced even more, most likely hybrid builds.

For dex it would most likely remain nearly the same since its possible to hit crit rate cap, but i think it would still be less unbalanced than now with your first proposition. The second proposition still feels too near the actual one.

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I generally agree with you, therefore my favored option also caps at 230% (still a little bit of a power gamer in me).

Well for transcedence I preffer Damage Multiplier [Smash], Elenore [DFO reference] (Extra Damage based in the damage dealt) or as the current one but giving less attack as @Andraax said. The actual one you get more than 50.000 HP and have high damage. :disappointed: