Tree of Savior Forum

TOS problems and their potential fixes

General Discussion
#1

This whole post as follows is about the issues myself and my group of friends have noticed about TOS and they need to be addressed by both the Community and Publisher as a whole. The purpose here isn’t to turn into a whine/rant but to acknowledge the problems TOS has and what is limiting it from being a fantastic game even in today’s market. We all understand this all started and is focused as a business and a business must make money, but as someone who actually understands and works in the market a lot of groups go about “making money” in the wrong ways. The following list is both a break down of problems and their quite easy fixes even with the skeleton crew that is currently working on the game (it was not announced but i would be willing to bet money cutbacks happened the week prior to EA launch).

Problems:

  1. Premium token’s lack of appeal added with its current rumored $18 price point. Let’s start with the easy part of this issue, charging $18 for a 1 month membership is crazy, and should be shut down fast (some folks will defend this saying it hasn’t been confirmed, fun life fact if people are proud about something they talk about it). Me and my whole group have no issue giving money to a game we enjoy, and we are for the most part universally enjoying TOS, but the benefits of this token need to be looked at because they don’t give anywhere near enough incentive especially for $18 a month.

  2. Whole trade system is just a poor attempt at a cash grab, and the excuse to “combat gold sellers” is just used to pull the wool over folks because people universally hate gold sellers. Limiting auctions is fine, especially in a f2p game, i can even respect the tax breaks given to token users. However requiring TP to be used to place an auction on top of all this is just a joke and is again a push to get extra money when it can easilly be earned if they instead focused on making a game enjoyable. Restricting trade in any format in a MMORPG defeats the whole reason to ever play with friends. You even have token users restrcited in trade to a total of 30 trades per month? 10/10 gameplay decision right there

  3. For a company to hate gold sellers and bots so much, they have put forth 0 effort to actually combat them in any format within TOS. Shutting down spammers/sellers/botters is quite easy in a game and has been for the last 12 years, wanna know the trick? You actually use your GMs in games again, stop making them into glorified customer support, their whole job should be focused on in game errors botters/sellers and general quality of life for players as they are actively playing. I know this will never happen cause again publishers have grown out of touch with good business practice, but the lack of any in game way to report any kind of spam/bot/hack is proof they don’t care cause they are even lacking in 15 minute bandaid fixes to these kinds of issues (chat spam filter, report function).

  4. Limiting dungeons to a daily allotment is far from home in a game entirely focused on party grinding. The limit on this can be broken into 2 issues, the first being this is yet again a very obvious cash grab attempt to make token’s look more appealing. It is also according to the community in place to be in place because exp gain within dungeons is massive compared to open world. Dungeons are already about the loot and content, why in the world would you make exp so much higher? 10/10 game play decision once again

  5. Female haircuts costing more then male within TP store. So i would be lying if this didn’t make me laugh quite hard, but come on. Charging more for a female haircut cause you can? Females being more popular played sex in mmos? Lets try to be a little less money hungry here, its been proven across the market, you’ll sell far more cash shop items and memberships if you do this weird thing called making your game fair and enjoyable, and making spending money give you extras not have to spend money to enjoy the base game.

  6. TP prices as a whole, and removal of stat and skill resets from in game continues with the money hungry trend. Nothing to add, this speaks for itself.

  7. Lack of communication on any front in both the development and bug fixes. Yes i know i know, you are all gonna freak out about the game just launching, but yet again fun life lesson for you folks who haven’t had to work for a living yet. PR 101 “If things are going good, tell them everything. If things are going bad, tell them even more.”

Potential Fixes:

  1. Take a look at what token membership actually provides and adjust TP prices to match. As well token bonuses need to be relooked at on a rather large scale, they more than likely won’t open up trading to f2p and dungeon lockouts to f2p. New options could be priority que placement, Dungeon entries to unlimited, fix the exp in dungeons so if my party wants to live in a dungeon for hours we can. Sure keep trading as token only since that will never change, don’t limit me to 30 trades a month with my friends, we should be able to play hot potato with our loot if we even choose to do so, just disable silver trading.

  2. I wrote about potential trade fixes to trading itself in the previous fix, but as well bring back Buy-in shops, there was no reason to remove these for any reason other than wanting money, allow your f2p people to at least play the majority of your game, otherwise everyone will leave with lack of population to keep paying members entertained. Remove TP requirement to make auctions, keep your taxes and limited postings.

  3. Pretend to care and at least put in terrible attempts at both a report function, and a chat filter system. No real depth needed here before they actually attempt anything.

  4. I flat out think this should be removed, but in spirit of compromising lets bring up f2p limit to an enjoyable amount, remove limit for token users, and across all dungeons nerf exp gain so dungeons are chose to be run for loot and the enjoyment, not the mathematical bonus to farming time.

  5. Yea, not rocket science, make them the same pricing as male haircuts. I’m surprised i even have to discuss this in 2016 full of triggers.

  6. Bring back the ability to earn skill and stat resets within the game, make them painfully hard to earn, thats fine but make it an option. TP pricing needs to reflect the market TOS is trying to enter, the prices are horribly overpriced.

  7. This is in the same category as bots, start putting forth effort to show you care and in turn get your community to push through the hardships with you.

These issues while game changing are all pretty simple fixes, and could be adjusted in very few man hours. The simple fact is this game isn’t going to “die” if nothing happens, but if nothing happens within this first month in EA of actually addressing these issues the population will drop before f2p launch, pops will jump for 2-3 month during f2p but will again drop to even more drastic numbers and will be deemed as a ghost town/dead game before the year is over.

TOS is a pretty amazing game, and is close to being a phenomenal game but will die a painful death like most if it continues the route of money hungry.

36 Likes
#2

I agree with this. I’d like to see a F2P game that has a P2P option that is actually WORTH playing out. I’m a subscription gamer… plenty of people are… give us a reason to subscribe and generate that $10/month guaranteed every month.

Why has it become the norm to treat gamers like a resource to be farmed instead of a customer to be entertained?

ToS here’s hoping you see this and consider it. If not then other games will take your spot and die shortly after as well until we finally get a game that some group of gamers will make that will shut down the entire market.

4 Likes
#3

You forgot storage expansion that costs TP and every new row cost grows exponentially (10*2^n), you also unlock them per-character.

2 Likes
#4

With the current system as it is between the number of base store slots, the inventory system using weight not slots, and membership having shared storage the banking while still an issue is far from a make or break in the current state of TOS.

1 Like
#5

Still waiting for official response from Staff, GMs or anyone else from IMC regarding those issues.

It seems like they’ve taken the approach of “waiting until people forget about the problem”. Really sad to see a game like ToS, with great potential, turn out to be another quick cash-grab project.

3 Likes
#6

I see the Token as a subscription substitute, not an item that is supposed to be worth my $18.

While I agree that the monetizing strategy wasn’t very well thought out. The token system do actually help fight RMT by providing a legit way to RMT through IMC.

Allowing unlimited trades will reduce its RMT fighting effectiveness. I think 30 trades is pretty reasonable for average players. Back in my MMO days I don’t think I traded friends once everyday. You could argue for 60 trades a month though. I wouldn’t be against that.

Buy in-shops might allow for easier RMT-ing. I don’t know the specific strategies to counter that.

I don’t know enough about instanced dungeon to be able to make a judgement whether it should be unlimited. There’s always open world dungeons to party / farm / xp.

As for haircuts… I don’t really know. It’d be nice if they are both equal, but irl male haircuts are a lot lower than female ones.

I agree for a in game method to make skill resets. No stat reset in game or in TP store for the moment.

#7

$18 is way overpriced for a subscription in general, let alone a subscription in a f2p mmo game with severe limits. The token system helps nothing with RMT, it makes RMT an outrageous cost, RMT will NEVER not exist and there is no way to counter it, stop trying.

Buy in shops are the same exact way to RMT as the auction is, the auction is just a way for them to make profit off RMT none of the in game systems actually limit this in any way, stop being a fanboy with 0 market experience.

They do not limit botting, they do not stop or limit gold selling, their entire system is to make money off of the system not help restrict the system.

Please try harder to defend pixel haircuts to be overpriced for females cause of RL counterparts, its just that, pixels.

2 Likes
#8

Wow so hostile when people have a different opinion from yours.

I’m out.

1 Like
#9

You read that as hostile? Why is it that anytime someone doesn’t like being told they’re opinion doesn’t consider something that the person telling them that is automatically hostile?

Listen… if you were raised with an exceptionally soft hand and can’t manage an argument then you likely shouldn’t be playing MMORPGs. We’re a very outspoken bunch. So, my advice, in a completely non-hostile manner, is to avoid forums and talking with people you don’t know if you’re going to constantly read people as being hostile.

Tone, when reading, is determined by the reader unless very clearly defined by the writer… and even then it’s exceptionally hard to define.

Back to the point at hand, however, he’s right about a few things ESPECIALLY the idea that “a woman’s haircut in real life costs more so a pixel version should cost more as well” being ludicrous and lazy. It’s a clear money grab and it’s pathetic.

1 Like
#10

Per character??? Oh screw that…

1 Like
#11

bump

/20charactersss

#12

QFT

/20QFTQFTQFTQFTQFT

#13

Bring this topic to the top. If these issues arent addressed im saying a vast majority of the people who want to play this including me are going to say ■■■■ this game.

#14

Yes, please keep trying to derail a thread that brings your poor golden child off its pedestal. You should of quoted the rest of Layenem’s post that goes into detail stating you should stop being so soft if you want to partake in conversations especially if you find anything you just quoted to actually be hostile.

When Kim is done being scared of talking, folks should keep this at the top, this accurately describes the glaring problems and is far from the now spam of sky is falling spam on the forums this morning.

1 Like
#15

i agree with this aswell.

Offtopic: https://embed.gyazo.com/7d471e83c68c8ffb947fd399685408bd.png
fun times /heh

1 Like
#16

I think u guys are forgetting something far more serious , your team storage !!! I’m trying to understand how in the hell they got in that format, really 1 slot ? not only that you cant even pass silver from your main to your secondary character, and worse if you want u give your nb character a better weapon not only cost 1 potential it cost 1 trade of those 30! REALLY!!!? THAT TEAM STORAGE NEED A FIX URGENTLY!!!

#17

In a game that derives its DIRECT REVENUE STREAM from people making alts (cause that makes people BUY more inventory space and costumes and everything else from YOU THE COMPANY using their MONEY), I find it so strange how alt UN-friendly this game is. The way “team” storage works for your not-actually-a-team just makes me want to scream “NO! MUST NEVER MAKE ALTS!!!” in my mind, and people not making alts is people buying less costumes/inventory/whatever (…cash shop is kinda bare-bones, isn’t it?) which means less MONEY.

Why a business company would shoot itself in the foot like that is beyond me.

1 Like
#18

Current state of the game is going to cost money instead of make it. Cash shop should entice people and make them WANT to spend money. This version simply doesn’t do that.

I can ignore team storage, it’s nice but it is not a must have.
Trading however is a must have staple. Currently you have a solo game with friends. There is no community interaction because you are punished and prevented from interacting with the community.

Why would I pay any amount for a limited number of trades and then the only people I can trade with are others who spent the absurd rate for an extreme limit and then on top of that the item loses something each time it is traded? It literally makes no sense what so ever. There are a ton of ways for a successful cash shop to work and support a game, the current state of ToS will not do that.

It’s packed because it is new. Once the new wears off if these issues aren’t addressed it’s going to hurt the company which in turn hurts the game and you will see the same downward spiral that other F2P titles have tumbled down.

The “It’s to stop gold sellers.” excuse doesn’t fly.

1 Like
#19

IMC listen to this guy! It’ll get much better if you start doing things right.

2 Likes
#20

In the market system im with you in the ftp restrictions most be removed, but no in the part that you suggest to keep the tax as is right now; i think is a really really high tax, come on is 30% of your sellings, even the real goverments arent that harsh xD, i think a 10% to 5% of tax for ftp and tax free for token players is a balanced market, as well you can add more items listed and more days in sell for token.