Tree of Savior Forum

ToS Freemium Game Opinion

General Discussion
#1

Hello,

I know the premium changes are being discussed in multiple topics but i wanted to create one strictly to find out peoples thoughts and see where the majority opinion is.

Personally i despise freemium systems and believe they should stay on cell phone games. And many people have made the argument that it stops gold sellers but it does not effect them, they will simply require their client to have premium to trade for the silver. The only thing this limitation does is let IMC get a cut from the gold sellers.

(Ktest server players have informed me both parties require tokens) But regardless gold sellers operate on subscription games as well.

I would prefer they stick to cosmetic sales (Which i would gladly throw my money at)

Or if they stop pretending to be F2P and make it P2P if this is the course they want to take.

Another option i would be fine with is just change VIP to xp boost or something similar don’t make it limit / deny core features of every mmo (border line pay gating).

So my question simply is does anyone actually like this pending system? Why do you like it?

Or if you don’t like it, what don’t you like? How would you suggest they approach or change it?

2 Likes
#2

I agree wih you, but would add that the trial period in the P2P version should be limited (e.g. 1 month).
If iOBT opens with the paywalled dungeon runs, extremely limited trading and that movement speec limit, I won’t be playing. Well, me, my partner, my brother and my old RO friends won’t be playing. We are really looking forward to play ToS but we also have lives, so no loss if IMC wants to go full money grabber. We’ll always have the private server option anyway.

#3

People please. It would be nonsense to make it hard P2P.
The actual system with tokens is P2P with the option to casually log in for some guild interaction or to help a friend without subscription which is fine in my opinion.

This way you can buy your tokens if you actively play. And if you go on a break you just don’t. Very good system.

1 Like
#4

Just to clarify, you have no issue with the tokens making the market not worth using and making 1:1 trades unavailable?

#5

it’s like “kill 2 birds with one stone” bad solution to stop “gold seller”, its only affecting the game itself.
the economy will move so slow, people will only sell their expensive things on market and throw other items on npc, so newbie player won’t get a chance to get better equipment just because no one sell it. it will be domino effects.

from my experience this will repeat itself like “city of steam” https://www.facebook.com/CityofSteam
all abandoned the ship, just because the company want get fast money, the player already abandon the game since then, just a matter of time till the game died. the game without anyone want to play will be dead.

and by the way, even using TP there’s no guarantee someone will buy your things also.

they should think win win solution, without hurt the game itself. more (channel, instance dungeon) for premium user, so the company get fast money from cash player, and the game itself was enjoyed both by free and cash player. premium player only get more chance to leveling, farming, get more items.

1 Like
#6

O so like premium players would have access to more channels. That is a neat idea i wouldn’t mind. It does give a slight advantage to prem players but at the same time doesn’t take anything away from the free players.

#7

Market costs silver at the moment. The limited slots are also fine which prevents the market to be flooded with trash which still happens on kOBT although it still costs TPs.
Also 1:1 trade being a subscription only feature seems fine for me. Makes botting a lot harder.

#8

f2p games with any sort of vip is the worst of them all imo. Pay gating core features is stupid and doesn’t make anyone happy. Just make it p2p if you’re going to force people into playing a monthly fee anyways.

And for those that argue that if there’s a way to buy the subscriptions in game then it’s like playing it for free. No. I’ve played games like this and it just ends in the only thing you ever do is save in game money to buy the sub and can buy nothing else. Besides with the way they block the market out, how do you even think you’re going to buy that sub unless you’re farming 24/7.

I like games that are b2p or f2p with an actual normal and fair market place. I like to purchase cosmetics items and not have to throw money away into random boxes trying to get it. I want to feel good when I put money into the game not like I’m getting ripped off or just having to pay to even play the game at all or I like to buy things just to donate money into the game because I’m enjoying it. As soon as it feels like scheme and forces players to be at either an advantage or disadvantage with it just being a competition about who can fork over the most cash, I don’t want to play.

#9

I think Gw2 has a Really good B2P model supplemented with cosmetics and conveniences in its market.

1 Like
#10

The actual system prevents silver/money black market and effective botting.
If the tokens are expensive enough that botting only gives you the option to keep the token up no one will bot. Why? Because you don’t bot on your main account.
This is why I like it.

#11

I’m ok with games that have premium membership, but the premium should only give convenience to payers, not huge advantages over f2p players.

Free players should be able to access all game features and enjoy the game at the normal exp/drop rate.

i’m ok if premium gives some bonus in:

  • exp/drop rate (+50% at max), but silver drop rate shouldn’t be increased
  • repair cost
  • dungeon runs
  • storage space

Things i don’t like for the current kOBT system:

  • market tax 30% is too much for free players. I actually suggest removing the tax bonus for premium because free players can never beat the premium players’ price with such tax gap
  • movement speed bonus shouldn’t be available in pvp
  • tokens shouldn’t be sellable on market: this makes gold selling available without paying real cash
2 Likes
#12

Having tradeable premium tokens is one of the most important things you need in an mmorpg today. Otherwise you will have people buying silver and items on the internet black market which is completely retarded.

#13

I don’t think you understand how selling tokens work. People pay cash to buy tokens, then they sell them on the market, then they receive gold/silver. The tokens are not supposed to be tradable after they are bought on the market. This is possibly the best thing ever to curb gold sellers because it gives a legit way to buy gold, and there’s no risk of getting banned or scammed.

The biggest issue is what those tokens give you. They should be something that gives enough incentive for people to want to buy, but not so much that it’s hindering without one.

#14

Just to clarify my point:
when token is not sellable on market, gold sellers will need to buy token with real money to be able to trade others. then this will be like a game with subscription fee to them.
when it’s available on market, gold sellers can simply buy it with silver and start trading with other players.

I can understand the point you guys mentioned, it’s the demand side greatly reduced, which, is a good way to reduce gold selling.
However for me, paying cash to get ingame silver officially is a very P2W model. You can disagree since p2w definition is different among people. But I have the right to dislike this kind of method.

#15

The problems i see with this thought line are

  1. the gold sellers won’t buy the tokens theyll expect the buyer to have active premium (from what i understand only 1 player in the trade needs it to initiate the trade)

  2. Gold sellers often have better real money to silver ratio then these premium or subscription tokens provide when sold. This requires both players to have tokens according to Ktest players.

  3. Are we pretending like subscription games don’t also have gold sellers? points towards FF14 / WoW / Anything with a decent population

#16

oh it only requires one person to have token to trade? then nvm all the stuff i said about sellable token then

for 3, i know gold sellers are everywhere, but at least there are fewer in subscription games compared to f2p games right?

EDIT:I just saw a test in the kTest tread that it requires both players to be token users to trade. So my original point about sellable token is ok.

#17

I think it depends on the population. Like the examples i used WoW and ff14 i think they make so much money that the subscription fee is negligible.

#18

yea agreed

i can’t really come up with a good solution to the token system. just saying some thoughts but im quite open to discussion

1 Like
#19

i’m pretty sure this new system not only to limit gold seller, but also to limit player from abuse it, like throwing some trash and sell it millions.

i have experience with some game that have great market system,
catalog view so the items ordered well and can be compare,
the seller have to pay 10% tax of their things in front. any price change need to pay another 10%.
unlimited duration, but they got limit item to put in market.

the player can also whisper seller to negotiate price, so much activity in market. TOS already implement anti monopoly system so this will work in my opinion.

it will run the game economy with buying-selling activity, will help lower player to buy great things, will help farmer to sell faster instead throwing at npc.

#20

I don’t understand how it makes things cheaper for a lower player. I see it as increasing the prices, if i was the seller i would put my costs on the buyer to retain my profit. Which would make things more expensive for low lvl buyers.