And he just reseted to Dex>Str for more consistent crit hybrid recently due to r8 power creep.
I dont know that, but even with just str build for dopple can still managed to get at the top of damage rankings. Dopple-dex on R7 can rival Dopple-str. On future contents where scaling and steroids weighs more(because weapons get stronger), then DEX will eventually outshine STR.
lmao SAO mode or hai no grimgar
326 Mergen here, since Rank 8 was released;
- Have completed every single new quest and map exploration and dungeon minus 1 fight, demon queen ghesti on sec5
- Finished my 315 bow and 4/4 Manahas Armor
- Achieved lv 326 and mergen 15
impressions- Rank 8 is an complete dumpster fire, the content was absurdly difficult and half of it was broken. It has caused more of the few remaining players we had left to leave rather then bring new players in. I HAVE all the new BiS gear and I still eat 10-20k attacks from trash mobs, its not āchallengingā its just broken, theres a difference.
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Yeah, having a summarized version will help a lot. Need to find a way to make this shorter without losing much content.
Personally I donāt think the devs are ignoring the issues we are facing. It is just some of the issues brought up is time consuming to do and implement. Issues like solving class balancing and lack of incentives in rolling new characters usually have to go back all the way to the design phase (SDLC term) and start conceptualising from there.
What we lack is the feedback from the devs themselves. The dev blog of the site is heavily underutilized. So much more can be done, like devs holding up a discussion topic to gather feedback on a certain aspect of the game, or showcasing their new or improved feature in the game etc.
@GyroZeppelli
Thanks for highlighting the correct subforum to post. The reasons I posted in general discussions is I hope that more people can come in and suggest ideas and improvements for the game we all love since more players visit Gen.Discussions more.
@ggamingPANDA
Yep, the huge monster HP pools and damage they do is a deterrent for fast content progressing. They do come with side effects though. Personally I think the game is either missing the bridging content (more maps, and common items) for the difficulty spike or need some adjustments to the lower rung 290-310 maps to make the transition to difficult high level 320+ content smoother.
Same here personally I donāt really consider upping numbers as a sign of difficulty. It is how most MMOs roll these days. The difficulty challenge that we both like (more monsters skills, monsters can dodge, have better AI etc) are only favorable to the game if the game has lots of āscripted encountersā. What I mean is the entire fight encounter is heavily scripted so that the movements of the monsters can pose a challenge to the player. Something akin to how a raid boss fight is like in WoW, how bosses fight in Ys ARPG series and enemy encounters in Dark Soul series.
Over at the open maps, it will be extremely hard to create an AI that will be intelligent enough to fight against the player with whatever arsenal the monsters have in their hands. We can imagine how taxing it will be to the server if there are 20+ monsters on the screen and each of them is calculating probabilities of performing an action based on the current situation in relation to other players and monsters. Thus most developers tend to use the more efficient method of padding the monsterās damage, durability and constitution, give them a palatte swap and call it hardmode+.
Agree that ToS currently is pretty much unbalanced, over at 320+ maps we have monsters ranging from 120k-500k hp in the same map. Even at the starting point (290dg entrance map) we can already feel the spike in monsters as compared to the monsters in Maven. Something can be done here to make the switch more gradual and less steep.
The use of chibi artstyle aside, I donāt find ToS looks or feels like RO at all. The 2 games play so differently.
More HP and more damage is a given for most if not all MMOs as they push into new content. The difference is how far the will push the increments and their targeted audience for the game. In the ideal situation it will be to push the difficulty level to a level where it poses as a difficult yet doable challenge to the player.
Agree, I too find that the team bonuses and team level need some revision to make the game more fun for the players.
@jjjsong
Yeah it doesnāt cover lots of aspects, too much to cover and the one I posted is already a huge wall of text. Thanks for adding more points and suggestions :3
I donāt think it is more of the damage to single targets that make swordsmen the lesser preferred in R7. They do deal as much damage as wiz in vs 1 mob situations. It is more of the ability to deal the same amount of damage to multiple monsters (aka AOE) that makes ele3 the preferred choice in parties. If there isnāt any aoe attack ratio limiting swordsmen I would reckon that swordsmen will be as popular as wizards in the aoe department.
In R8 not everyone is fortunate like some of us who has gotten our practonium to craft the equipment necessary to break the damage gap. Which is why I suggested having the common white tier 270 and 315 items (which sadly arenāt in the game) to help mitigate this situation until we get the weapon that will make us efficient. Each and every map has a different monster composition, we canāt just blanketly say that magic classes are fine since parties are still calling out for ele3s in grind parties. The grind maps are choosen specifically due to the high spawn rate, ground based monsters with mid to low defences so that the party can clear them efficiently.
There is more to wizards than just meta ele3wl2. Similarly to swordsman there are more other builds than just dopples and fencers. For the game to have more diversity, the content has to, at the very least cater to builds which are of mid tier, rather than taking high damage builds equipped with near end game items as a benchmark to balance the content.
Personally I think the balancing can be done much better, like introducing monster mitigation skills such as partial damage reduction/immunity skills and such to mobs rather than setting the defence and hp of mobs up so high. It arenāt that easy to hit that 2k+ matk just to get back the same damage numbers as before. Hearing from my ele3 friends it is really disheartening to see their usual 4-6k per tick frost cloud turn into 1 damage per tick FCs while the mob which is dealt 4-6k per tick has 150k hp and the 1 per tick monster has 400-500k hp.
3 Likes
Sigh.
Donāt over-analyse what I said. I know they donāt communicate and that they are probably working on a bunch of stuff.
Iām merely making a comment around the feeling we have that the devs arenāt doing what they should be doing like you mentioned, they donāt update devblogs with important stuff and WIPs.
Anyways. Most of the gameās problems right now is related to bad design choices after release. Specially those related to player restrictions.
2 Likes
This is well put @Nekorin, good stuff. These are my main issues with the R8 patch, ill try not to repeat what you have said.
Monsters
Im all for harder and more challenging content. But at the moment, its just plain dumb. Especially those homing projectiles are cheap.
Personally, my kind of āchallengeā is that where you need to skillfully dodge, dealing with more intelligent monsters and at least make you think how to attack. Unavoidable damage is just a poor and lame mechanic.
My suggestion is that, remove homing projectiles. If you still prefer that, make it somehow avoidable. YS is a game that gives a good example at how making games challenging.
R8 Class
With R8 classes introduced, class choices between R1 - R6 are becoming less relevant. Dont bother getting damage prior to R6/7, just go buffs/debuff/support all the way since once you get to R8, your damage skills before that are not worth to spend your SP on. They just deal so little damage. I know that there are few low rank classes that benefit from their R8 choice, but yeah, few.
It seems they are trying to buff lower ranks by introducing items such as Agni Necklace, where it buffs fire damage to make it on par with R8 damage. This is a good quick fix but the problem is, introducing it at lv115. Getting R8-like damage at that lvl? Thats just abit too much. Shouldve make it wearable once you reach R8.
My suggestion is that, scale all of our skillsā base damage by rank. For example:
Rank 1 skill - 100 base damage
Rank 2 skill - 120 base damage
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ā¦
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Rank 8 skill - 160 base damage
For every rank, increase all base damage by 100%. So when you reach R8:
Rank 1 skill - 700 base damage
Rank 2 skill - 840 base damage
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Rank 8 skill - 1120 base damage
This makes lower rank damaging skills still relevant. For PvP, you could just make a one fixed base damage bonus for all, regardless of rank.
Conclusion
The way i see this game is heading, the more major patches rolls in, the less class going to be viable. Forget that this game has 80 classes or whatever. There are actually 20 classes since the remaining 60 is just irrelevant.
3 Likes
Poll got deleted lmao
They should just buff str/Int the stats are luckluster now.
Give every point str/int 0.5% more skill dmg the older ranks wouldnĀ“t fall off so badly and you can still change the skill formulas later on.
Reblancing with eq is a very bad idea.
lmaoā¦ i jsut noticed it to lol
1 Like
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2 Likes
wakaka, u might not want to hue this threadā¦ staff is watchingā¦
big wall of text thread is protected.
peace yo~
on topic, imc didnt learn anything about balancing from cbt.
history repeating itself with rank7 , now rank8.
good to see people still think suggestion will do any good. it helps giving the illusion the game is worth while.
its all good. optimistic. bravo.
hats off to current 5k players, u guys are the best!
if it takes 1week for players to observe all these, i wonder whats the paid proffesional dev are doing.
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Except that for Wizards both R8 Classes focus on support,they simply donāt have that skill damage to rely on.
My only gripe with the game atm is how they expect us to make dozens of alts with that ridiculous transcedence system in place? Itās a great flaw that will eventually snowball into being main centric character.
I mean, transcedence and gearing has such a high ceiling that any skill can do ridiculous damage if you reach a certain (albeit absurd)point. That makes possible for practically any build to be viable damage wise. This certainly seems to be their main intention, your bad non meta build can be āsavedā by gearing, itās just that player mentality is too focused on maximum efficiency,it reached the point of cultural behavior.
P.s: Anyone can confirm about how atk curve starts ramping when thereās a big difference in atk/def(i mean, the formula isnāt exactly flat as commonly widespread)? I think thatās essential on understanding the design decisions behind the game difficult.
So no more MayMay??
Then what XDā¦ JuneJune XD
Bwahahahha