Tree of Savior Forum

This will answer (almost) all of your questions about the STR vs DEX debate (pvp not included)

General Discussion
#28

Great work!
Well for those who are too lazy to read, here’s a quick summary:

  1. As the author says, it doesn’t and shouldn’t tell you what STR:DEX ratio to use, but does show the highest damage based on a number of factors. This is because the chart is about the relationship between the two. It shows a trend between str and dex, based on weapon attack levels.

  2. Secondly, there is no optimal STR:DEX ratio that works for every build. The optimal ratio depends on your total attack (base + weap + skill). The general rule is: You must reach a certain minimum attack before crit starts to give returns. But 10% crit is always suboptimal.

  3. You actually save a lot of time if you look at the table. Author has helpfully set out the highest (yellow) and lowest (red) damage, and you can clearly see the patterns.

  4. My personal take: Warriors should probably go more STR than DEX because their skill damage isn’t high, and they don’t have natural crit rate boost unlike archers. This means that the minimum attack they need is really high and hard to reach. Burst damage archers like Musketeer and Cannoneer, on the other hand, would benefit greatly from crit since their skills can easily hit the minimum damage requirement.

3 Likes
#29

you considere auto attack only in this, NOone play full auto attack.
as cannoner a skill give me 4 k added, i play almost full DEX, and i make those 4 k crit (90% of the time)
Its a lot better than go full str, full str would just add ‘300-400’ physical dmg to the 4K the skill give ( around lvl 225 )
So sure if you play auto attack str Beat dex, but if you play skill, making the dmg the skill give crit, is a hell lot better than add some physical dmg to it.

#30

Scroll to the right. it considers skill damage from 0 (auto attack) to 4k.

#31

100 to 5k :slight_smile:

@chr.fye
0 (auto attacks) would essentially be the same as 100 since well, if you actually looked at my tables, there is a pattern.

@elysium
Thank you so much! This is such a good TL;DR for it. I will put it on the first post.

@teonimesic
It’s more than just that. lol

@PappusLove you too. :grin:
#32

Thanks to this I could make my cleric guide clean and bait people into reading something short… until they click on those arrows muahahhaa :smiley:

#33

Well, spearsman could still do a dex build actually because of hoplites Finestra.

Other than that though, sword users should always pump some STR. That’s why I’m always lolin’ at pure DEX swordies.

#34

It does, and it doesn’t beat it till were talking like 3000-4000 base damage. Which pretty much most classes won’t hit with the exception of stuff like musketeer/cannonner. Cannoners aoe’s fully leveled easly pass the 4000 damage mark the second you get them at lv 5. But for 95% of classes, a str build is probally better in the long run. for musketeer Snipe can easly hit that kind of damage, as can any cannoner aoe. but those are about the only classes who have skills that can hit that high, next closest is probally dragoon, some of its attack skills have a huge attack mod., but other than those 3 of the crit enabled classes, the rest would be better off with a str build. At least thats what I am getting from this from looking at damage value of lv 220 gear. Which even +10’ed is not really all that high.

All in all OP’s spreadsheet pretty much ends the debate, and the winner is: str is better for almost every crit enabled class. With exception of musketeer, cannoner and probally dragoon. My archer uses a str 4, dex 2, con1 build, which gives me best of both worlds, though at 121 after reading this I may stop raising dex and just start going pure str/con. Green gems will make up the diff.

#35

Even then why would you? the crit rate needed to get high crit% gets insane later there is literally no way you’d hit it even full dex+finestra. But finestra does allow anyone with hoplite3 to easly hit 50% crit rate or higher just with base dex+green gem+finestra. There IS a reason that people say the ONLY viable swordman dps build is swordman->peltasa->hoplite3->dopple->dragoon. Since you don’t need dex for crit, you can go more str/con to hit harder and also your able to tank. As a bonus finestra also gives +3 aoe attack ratio. The crit rate from hoplite3 is easly why people say its the most viable, thats like 150 free dex. You can also sub dopple for corsair but you’ll take a huge dps hit (deeds of valor’s +50% dmg buff is not to be sneezed at), in exchange you get more utility. But I don’t know if its worth the huge dps loss.
Fienstra requires a 1 or 2 handed spear to stay active and it drops the second you switch to a diff weapontype, thats why dragoon is there, hard hitting attack skills+2 hand spear use, but lets be honest, one hand spear+arde easly out dps’s any 2 hand spear user. When you factor in the fact that the arde damage applies to every hit of a skill, and Hoplite has stabbing which can easly hit 15+ times. I’d depend on if the skill is a big single hit or a bunch of hits.

1 Like
#36

Yep, that was my point. Swordies in this game is just eye candy till IMC decides to do something about it.

#37

Accuracy is very level based for the most part, the only things u might miss occosionaly are flying mobs that have self evasion buffs, on Orsha before i left it i was lving a FS priest and there was only 2 enemies from lv 1-75 i’ve ever missed on, and both were small flying critters, even then I still had over a 80% hit rate, this was in cafrisun set too, which the gloves add bascally 0 acc. The whole acc thing seems to be more of a pvp thing in my eyes. in pve even with no dex you’ll most likely rarely if ever miss.

#38

doesn’t matter because you’ll get bullied by clerics, archers and wizards.

#39

that’s a pretty garbage build if you think that’s viable I feel bad for u son.

#40

mmm the question is.

¿does this new information affect the archers with their buff kneel shot?

#41

Depends on how you look at it.

Kneeling shot is an extremely special case in which it will forever benefit from DEX way more than STR.

But the question isnt is DEX or STR better for kneeling shot.

It is about whether you will only use that move 90% of the time or will you use your other skills.

Most of the time, your other skills will benefit from STR more. There are some exceptions to this rule.

@judex
Please do some research before you go around telling people what is good or bad.

#42

I’m at work and haven’t really dived into the sheet because phones suck for checking excel.

The question I would like to ask is if your base character assumptions are OK. I only took a quick glance, but it seems you are assuming 500 base atk and 320 equipment crit?

I think an end game archer had something like 1200-1400 base damage before things like squire weapon buff and collections. Would shift eveeyone to the right at least 800 base damage.

This doesn’t really affect the conclusions, but it might affect where along the line of str/dex people stand.

It is interesting that the number for crit to take over is so high. Id have assumed it was much lower…but then again I was doing the math for Kneeling Shot, Running Shot, and Snipe so I was very biased with my excel conclusions.

#43

1200 base damage with 0 strength and not counting elemental damage?
500 is just the weapon, and is slightly high to account for some misc effects. A lolopanther 2h sword is only 450 average, without upgrades. More powerful gear will shift things towards dex, as you say.

At any rate, all the examples use default base stats, such as archer’s crit rate/level and all character’s 1 attack/level.

#44

I see where my assumptions came from. It was a mistake in my math where I doubled the damage from your body. Should be something like 502 on weapon from a +12 Didel Grand Cross, 3x +35 atk hair accessories, +40ish from rings, +14 from ammy, +10 from gloves, +287 from levels, +11 from base str, +75 from squire buff, +20 from collections. Something like 1050ish to 1100ish.

#45

Nice theorycrafting. Helped me to find a base damage threshold for a full dex build. It’s really high though.

Already started to link newbies with STR/DEX questions here. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Could you also add some calculations for a hypothetical cleric and archer, using their most common crit buffs (Monstrance and Swift Step: Critical Rate)? And maybe swordie with finestra.

#46

Flat crit rate doesn’t change things much at all really. Unless you’re rubbing up against 100% or can’t manage to clear crit defense, each point of crit rate is worth as much as the next.

#47

What a f***** awesome job, you sir diserves a gift. (aplauses)
I will be glad if you just see if I got this right.

FACTS about my build:

  • I have finestra 15 (150crit rate) and don’t want to get Gae Bulg (best single damage) as a Dragon.
  • So all my damage will be from multi-hit skill like, Stabbing, Ciclone (from dopel), Dragon skills etc…
  • After many research I have been doing a stat distribution like 180STR 80CON 39DEX, but I only put 10 points on DEX so far, because I was keeping it for later.
  • My damage will be for ex: 400 (spear) + 480(STR) + 800 (skill - Ciclone or D. Soar) = 1680 damage from each hit (approximated values, many many things not taking in consideration)

And here is my self conclusion after playing a little with your spreadshit.

  • I’ll be far from the value were will be interesting to put DEX into consideration so I can go STR all the way (209:80:10), and IF there is a point where DEX starts to be better than STR I will be protected because of finestra and my green gems that can EASILY give me 25% Crit Rate with 120 Crit Resit

Did I got it right???

Thank you so much.