Hi, first i wanna congratulate your efforts to make this a better game and pointing out so many valid arguments. I am pretty sure many of us had high hopes for this and are a little let down at it’s current state. But we musn’t forget that this is just the closed beta. I just wish developers read and listen to their future players and find this game’s full potential. I sincerely think the title of the topic and the first paragraph are a tad aggresive and have no relation with the well put arguments you have further on, i mean this is some really positive criticizm to be taken as complaining from a 11 year old.
Yeah. It’s not RO1 alright. It’s like every other MMORPGs out there except RO1. =D
2 Likes
That would be a better way to do it. Better to give clues and let the players work it out rather than give too much information on how to do everything. It gives the players a sense of accomplishment if they finish even the easiest of quests. This would also make the game more challenging and exciting.
That’s why you ask for collateral. If he takes your stuff and runs, you still have the value of the stuff you gave him so you’re not at a loss, i.e. no scam. Again, don’t be an idiot and you won’t get scammed. This goes for every game and is even applicable to real life.
And there are a lot of fresh things such as deep class system
I could go into the class system further but I didn’t feel like writing a book.
And just because something is new and different doesn’t mean it’s good or better. For instance, the thick log I dropped in the toilet earlier is ‘new’ and ‘fresh’, but I certainly wouldn’t want to spend much time around it.
Additionally, we’re at the point now where copying the formula of an older game would be a breath of fresh air.
Wow u are so toxic with this toilet comparisons. Please go play RO on some private server with x0.01 rates, you rly don’t need this game
lol this guy whine about what he call “whiners” just because they mention RO. Not sure if stupid or just trolling either way he fails. He is there spitting the same line in every topic as well. “Oh no they say RO is better q_q. Go away I don’t like uuuuuuuuu” .
Well since he is just useless let’s make fun of him. Wait he is saying basically nothing and repeat the same argument that we read 5000x times. This game is not RO
1 Like
ehh, in every topic? I posted in 2 topic and created my own about that, and that’s it. And since people liked my thread aswell I assume I’m not alone in this point of view.
I think who really useless is that people who can’t bring any valid arguements in criticizing the game and just keep saying stuff about linear gameplay and other hilarious bs. This game has failures for sure, like class balance, stat formulas, etc, but u can’t even see it I guess.
And I mentioned RO in my game feedback either btw. There is just a difference between making a little comparsion in various gameplay aspects or wanting this game to be a RO clone.
So they bring no points but yet they talk about linearity. lol nice contradiction there.
point you cannot deny. You call it bullshit but nobody cares rofl.
So since you cannot read or lack the intelligence to discuss I will outline the so called non existant point you cannot notice.
So can you tell me :
- what are you gonna tell them about the boring and useless quests system?
- boring map layout?
- Debatable auction house?
- Easy and boring grind?
He didnt even compared this game to RO which amplified the fact you didn’t even read OP and just keep embarassing yourself.
Go on lol
1 Like
Lol, please don’t tell me about “lack of intelligence to discuss” when your posts are toxic af. at least I didn’t insult anyone.
I’ve read OP post and all of his arguements are very subjective and personal and other person may be completely fine with things he finds “bad”. This game has some real issues, like balance, XP gaps, stat formulas. You can’t even see this, because of hating wave. And this hating comes from ruined expectations. I didn’t expect this game to be a RO clone and I’m fine. Me and a lot of people I played with are completely ok with quest system (it’s basically the other form of grind, in RO u grinded on same locations with new characters untill 99, how is this not linear). “Boring map layout” is also personal and subjective. Auction house works similar way in A LOT of games and it’s better than one million vendors in main city where you have to spend hours to find item you want to buy. The grind on locations might be easy and boring, but you also have dungeons which are fine for me.
TLDR: all OP’s arguements are very personal and subjective and they come from expecting this game be like other games he played.
According to this guy awesome logic and way to discuss.
We didn’t listed every single point he dont like in the game so our posts are useless. wow LOL.[quote=“ikorsunsky5, post:47, topic:110900”]
And this hating comes from ruined expectations. I didn’t expect this game to be a RO clone and I’m fine.
[/quote]
Noise. the same over and over we get it dude
So to counter our point he says he like the system. LOL. much argument much wow. And no people had the choice to grind wherever they liked for decent result. Effective spots are by definition unique. Other options were widely available and even needed for some items. By comparison TOS 2 maps available and only 2 maps is beyond bad.
He likes map. We are done for guys. Basically you don’t care. Why do we care about u already?
Similar games does it so TOS is fine doing it? So every game being bad allows TOS to lower its standards and be bad as well. The invasion of personal shops is a good point. Your only one.
What dungeons? 2 in 100 level? And I am talking about real dungeons not generic maps buried underground and organized as floors.
So this guy brought many interesting ppoints. Oh sorry next to none. He just says opinions are subjective rofl. TOS is doing so bad it’s not even subjective anymore but mere facts. And a poor conclusion from a poor argumentation.
So no your voice is pretty much useless unless you learn to have a proper opinion and express yourself correctly
1 Like
Fallacy: the post
Oh the irony
1 Like
I had high hopes for tree of savior and waited for it for years. Honestly I am very disappointed. Sure it has got absolutely beautiful visuals just like blade and soul, but I think they have the some problem: extremely linear progression and lack of content and depth.
All you do is quest after quest. Quests drag you to one place and another, open world map are like narrow tubes which are essentially paths linking npcs and event points. You only go to the appropriate place fit for your level and quests. After you finish a zone you never go back to that place. Not to mention quests are very boring. Nothing stands out. You always walk past beautiful sceneries on a tube map, kill monsters which have no AI and charge straight at you while running slower than you. It’s like a mundane task repeated over and over again…It gets boring… I could go on and on…
Strangely I feel it is like playing the YS series or the legend of hero 6 single player RPG(at least the tube maps look similar)…which I played 8 years ago. lol
I really tried to enjoy tree of savior but I can’t stop thinking how mabinogi had wayyyy more content and fun. When playing mabi i feel it really is a world full of possibility. There are just SO MANY things I can do. I remember back in the days I used to be crazy for mabi and I would play it all night. There were always things for me to do and I never felt bored. However when playing TOS or BNS, I feel like I just got this single (linear progression) task to do. I don’t even read the quest dialog cuz I know it is going to be killing x amount of monsters or something of that sort. I just want to get it over with. Then I wonder, what is the point? Sure I can spend 2 weeks, grind thru all these “tasks” and reach max level, but what is left to do then?
I quit mabinogi in early 2013 in search of a more modern MMO better than mabi. But now I’ve completely given up. Not only have I not found a better one, I think the new MMOs are light years behind mabi in terms of content and actual fun. I think I will never see another mmo as good as mabi…never again
I think mabinogi is one of the most used examples for a game with good freedom on the korean forums, when discussions about the linearity and lack of many areas come up.
Fun fact: When asked to make the game less linear, the developers just decided to hide some of the quest givers “We give quests!” icons.
1 Like
Amazing how some people here dismiss every single legitimate criticism as “it’s not RO you must have expected it to be RO and thus your whole feedback is invalid xD”. Seriously, this adds nothing to the discussion. I don’t know why some people are so oversensitive to criticism on this game when the purpose of a testing phase is to see the flaws and criticize what you’re testing (that’s why there is a FEEDBACK section). The ones blindly defending this game above anything are doing it a lot more harm than good.
Feedback is MEANT to be subjective and you don’t have to agree with it. Do you people always create a ruckus when you disagree with someone in real life? Get over yourselves.
Yea…I didn’t even go into any detail on this because I know many ppl probably haven’t played it. But I can write a whole farking 10 page essay on how good mabi is in this area and all new mmos should learn from it. You simply CANNOT have freedom without a good amount of quality content and depth. And I think that is something that the new mmos are seriously lacking. Now speaking of TOS…I am not even thinking about freedom…with its current content, I am afraid to say it is downright boring…let alone freedom.
It seems to me that all the new mmo developers are spending 95% of their resources and man power on good visuals and only 5% on designing and implementing good quality content…It is truly sad and I think this is killing the MMO genre.
They are fooling nobody…well maybe some super hyped fanboys who have yet to play the game fully. How can the game be not linear when it is entirely a quest train and the open world maps are pretty much tube-like path ways connecting quest/npc islands? Not to mention the tubes and islands are level locked and you only go to the appropriate map fit for your level and quests. After you finish a zone you never go back to that place.
Person #1: “I like Strawberry Spongecake. It’s the best.”
Person #2: “I like Apple Pie. It’s awesome.”
Person #1: “Apple Pie is disgusting! Go die you worthless piece of %&^$! I hope you get cancer!1!”
Coincidentally, that’s also how the fanboys react to negative feedback here.
Though seriously, ToS is Quantity over Quality.
Maximum number of classes; minimum number of skills. At least half of which are useless and after 2-3 ranks, and you’re forced to drop most of the ones that are useful due to skill scaling.
Maximum number of maps; minimum quality of terrain. Islands and Bridges everywhere…
Maximum number of mobs; minimum quality of mobs. Almost every mob 1-120 is AoE food. No hp, no damage, bad skills, terrible AI.
Maximum number of quests; minimum quality of quests. Doesn’t really need an example…
The list goes on… and on… and on.
A good game, and pretty much every good mmo made in the last 10 years should be quality over quantity, at least in the beginning. If the people like a game’s quality, they’ll stick around and demand more. That’s when quantity gets added: over time, with the support of the players to direct the way the game should be made.
You can’t start with quantity and expect people to stick around while quality is added. What are they meant to do in the meantime? Play content that sucks donkey balls and makes them want to quit and pour bleach in their eyes? What if the “quality” that’s added later is terrible to the premise of the game and the players promised greatness? Well, there’s nothing you can do, but watch the game slowly sink into the ocean that is Steam’s bargain bin.
3 Likes
Very nicely said! You forgot the ridiculous amount of low quality bosses. Boy did they not forget to show case those bosses during every promo video. But in reality, pretty much for every 2 new generic low quality mob you get thru the linear progression, you will get another generic boring boss. It is so pointless it is funny. Well I guess they gotta have it as something to boast in promo videos.
And somebody in an earlier reply mentioned that he doesn’t remember 90% of the monster he fights because everything is the same. That is so true in TOS. Pretty much all mobs are the same thing, with different names and looks. They might as well recycle the same mob and put it in different places. Just assign it a different level and it would be the same thing as making a new mob. Mobs are stupid and always slower than you. Just lure a bunch of them, let them chase you and give them an AOE attack. Anyone who is not brain dead can do it. I can name and recognize every mob in mabinogi. as every mob has its own AI, skill set, running speed, etc…Combat is engaging and fighting one mob can be completely different from fighting another one. You have to play accordingly or you will die. I would say this kind of thing constitutes as depth in an MMO and TOS is seriously lacking in this.
Agreed as well. I actually played in mabinogi OBT over 10 years ago. It was exactly like you said. The game didn’t have much content at all. Very few towns, open world maps, mobs, etc… But the content that was there was actually quality content! (ie, Every mob has its own AI, real big open world maps…) And those content still persists till today exactly the same way back then.
As you suggested, I’d much more prefer to see way less content in TOS CBT, but better, more carefully crafted content.
I’d say with a level cap of 80, fewer but true open world maps(none of this tubes and islands we got), and most importantly, none of the linear progression quest train, etc, would have been better.
But whatever. I guess none of the things we say here will make any difference. They’ve already made their design decision and the big picture is already set in stone now. Now they are pushing for a release so they can start profiting. They can’t remove the linear progression quest train because they only got tubes and island maps to work with. They can’t redo the map either cuz it won’t be financially viable. (It could be the reason they made it this way to begin with)
2 Likes
Agree with the above on many points. I don’t think TOS needs to be utterly uprooted to achieve some of these goals. I think people will live with the map design if the mobs are more memorable & interesting.
Beside the points i feel are more of a preference than actual game design (although i also have such preferences), they main issues i see that are killing the game are the restrain of exploring and the auction house/ item system.
Both have the best potential for Excitement and Both fail miserably.
On one hand, exploring maps, looking for quest givers, stronger monsters, or weaker monsters with good drop, chests and mysteries of any time just has no excitement. You know the level of the map as soon as you enter, the monster strenghts are average among themselvs and have generic stats (main difference is magic damage vs physical damage vs ranged or melee). Quests givers only work on 10lvls below, and also monsters take less damage and deal more if you are lower level. Weaker monsters give mats for lower level items, so, pretty much useless, also exp penalty. Chests are fixed, with fixed key level and fixed drops so, meh.
AH for gear kills the economy. Just buy 2nd best gear for your Tier (tiers also kill this) and everytime you hear the drop sound, you know is, at best, the same you have (and probably not because better weapons for each tier appear from monsters closer to the next tier), Orbs are pretty useless since the monster dies in 4 seconds from damage (maybe useful for druids?) not gonna bother on why gems and upgrading seem like a waste of time, also because of tiers. The fact gems have a fixed tradeoff also limit what you can do with them.
The game in itself has nothing to do if you are tired of questing or grinding, you either go to another lower level character or just log off.
Sometimes you just want to go 1 v1 with stronger monsters (which would also make safer ranged 1v1classes (Archer cof cof) feel stronger and having another leveling option other than forcing some AoE skill rushing) and then rest for a few minutes while chatting. But here its just not worth it, dropwise or expwise. Or just walk through endless stores instead of just typing “scimitar” at AH.
When i heared “potential” on gear i though "WOW; finally, i’ll get a cool weapon and i can keep it for a long time, because i though it would sorta grow with me, and the point of it was that some weapons had larger room to grow. Also the reset i expected was just, if you lent it to another chara or friend, they wouldn’t benefit from “your” unlocked “potential”. But no, just meh mechanic. Everything is a moneysink, repairs, 1% damage attributes, pet leveling stats, storage, which are terrible choices from a game design (not fun, forced tasks) and from an economical point of view (just delays inflation, does not prevent it)
This game has so much potential, the Core of the game, as in classes and battle system are great, they just need to try and focus on Excitement, those moments you want to share and scream, when you see that weapon after 3 days grinding, the same excitement you get drawing the one card you needed on a TCG or getting that God damn Penta on Lol, or Just being the final player alive killing the raid monsters few seconds before wiping.
The blue white golden mob tries to do this, but its just a fleeting moment of “cool, i saved myself an hour of playing”.
1 Like