Tree of Savior Forum

This game is confusing

General Discussion
#1

From what I understand, the devs are trying to ease new players into the game with helpful leveling items and free gear. It’s nice and all but I don’t think giving things away for free is the whole answer to this problem. Hear me out.

I have no idea how to properly ichor things or even where to do so unless I google the hell out of it. Ichors are extremely important in this game though so you’d think it would be expressly explained at some point in game. It isn’t. I can’t even find a help topic about it in game.

As a new player I have no idea how to even quest properly. Unless someone explains that you can click the + under Episodes Quest list you’re going to be lost very quickly. It’s like everything is seamless progression and guidance through quests until you finish the first 2 episodes and then have to manually select quests one at a time.

I had a companion that I couldn’t mount (the free one I was given by the companion NPC). Couldn’t mount it unless I was the right class. Later I found a youtube vid that taught me about the anniversary dlc with a pet that anyone could mount any time. This was when I was already done with ep 12.

It’s like everything up to level 400 is useless filler at this point. It’s all just a means to an end and therefore feels like a slog that is only worth doing the first time. You can’t skip cutscenes you have already seen and you can’t receive the character-bound episode rewards on your alts.

Speaking of alts… so much stuff cannot go in team storage. My first character was a cleric and of course I had no clue what I was doing when I made it. Those useful items can’t be sent to team storage for my other characters to use now and it makes no sense. It’s odd and annoying how separated each character is despite being on the same ‘team’.

The 1 week of no marketplace is terrible. Additionally the lack of storage space is also pretty bad as a new player because of this marketplace restriction. So you either vend your mats to npcs for literal peanuts or toss it on the ground because you can’t sell it to other players and you definitely do not have the storage space to hold onto it for later.

The difficulty spike is massive once you go to a lv 400 map. Without that +11 10 Star free gear I am powerless there. My alts can’t get by there and I really just don’t even know where to begin with making up for that with new gear. The game doesn’t tell me enough. I don’t know man.

I get that a lot of you will look at this and think I’m some pleb that didn’t try hard enough but I’m simply trying to paint the picture as a brand new player. These are the things I think this game could work on if they want the newcomers to stay. I hope nobody is offended or upset because that is not my intention. And of course you may know some useful things that I don’t, but that’s kind of the whole point here-- this game is confusing.

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#2

yeah you better asking to veteran player in game or at forum, rather than read the help in game.

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#3

Even asking my guild with many veteran players wasn’t enough for me unfortunately. Many forget what it is like to know nothing so they toss around tons of acronyms and vague directions. I can’t fault them for that though because at least they are trying to help unlike the actual game lol. If I asked them everything I needed to know it would be a full-time job for the both of us.

Idk about you or others but I’m usually uncomfortable with pressing other players with constant questions/demanding details to be spelled out when I don’t quite understand. Most times I can find the information quickly online or in game but not here. They would say to do CMs or some dungeon/raid things. Finding a party for dungeons and raids is rough as someone who doesn’t know anything and my guild was not offering to help run me through anything either. I don’t want to come off as entitled so I just let it go and continue questing until I’m literally out of quests. Now that I’m out of gold quests and have a lv 440 druid and a 385 Elementalist that can’t even touch lv 400 mobs I’m on the verge of quitting this game until many of the issues I spoke about in the OP are addressed properly. :\

I don’t expect to be spoonfed items or experience either. The grind is fine as long as I know what the goal is or how to make my way through it.

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#4

Yes, their UI help window is small, confusing, not details and can be outdated by its content.
That’s why sometime i turn to official webpage for info.

IMC logic for F2P is

Free to play = demo version
Spent your wallet = full fledge version

This is not the first time I see confusing content in game (not just tos) and it a real turn off for people to hook up on the content if they don’t understand what, where and how to play, when the game already reach a maturity stage and bloated with old content.

P/s: nobody actually want to do earth tower except for weapon skin.

#5

It’s more: “free to play = grind for hours”, “pay to play = get immediately”.

In my guild a lot of people do ET simply for AP and the chance of getting a Mystical Page.

#6

I agree that IMC throws you into the end game without much explanation, but I don’t think it’s all just her fault, veteran players also have their share of being super individualists and closing themselves in their circle, not being friendly with other novice players, and the online community is also not very proactive and does not create much content for beginners they usually like to complain (usually people here on the forum), and sometimes the player himself (I don’t think that’s your case ) but I see a lot of people ignoring any warnings or help or tips from the game to complain about something the game warned about seconds ago u.u

and now how I felt being a new player I am the type that is afraid of making mistakes in the game so I did not do many things but when I lost some of that fear and started to test things the game was much more pleasant and In relation to the new maps, I also felt the difference in strength because I also started as a cleric and I was upgrading what I knew would make me stronger like using the attribute points that I got at events, equipping some cards and upgrading and equipping some gems mostly because they are very simple systems to understand and already help a lot and only recently I learned to use ichors and I already felt some difference I can kill these monsters 400+relatively easily and with the equipment of chapter 11 they help a lot

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#7

No… free to play = grind for years | pay to “fast” = get immediately

#8

Some of your problems can be solved by…
…buying token

i agree about the power spike, moreso when you hit 420s. IMO the free gear ain’t even enough.

for ichoring, gearing you have to research a lot, in here, reddit and youtube. luckily there’s some useful related topics here about it.

i miss the old days without ichoring… but well, i think other games also have it like this, starting from simple 1 or 2 step upgrading and enhancing equipment system then later on evolve to so many additions that are random and/or expensive.

#9

I didn’t like ichoring when I first read about it when I came back. But I realised that the good thing about ichoring is that you don’t need to refine another set of equipment as fast as they push content.

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#10

I did buy tokens yesterday. After leaving the guild I was in another group approached me and invited me to theirs & my experience/knowledge is growing more now with them spelling things out like I’m 5. It’s a shame that the game doesn’t do this for new players.

The free items and fast leveling feel amazing until you’ve been rocketed straight to end-game and then you’re completely lost there, like being blasted off into space and now you’re floating around out there like… “Now what?” lol

A fast ticket to end-game without the knowledge to back it up is enough to make many players quit. They won’t understand what makes them powerful or how to recreate it on their own should they need another character or better gear than the free Savinose. My main cleric with the Savi gears can passably farm EP12 maps (not efficiently at all of course) but my alts… the gear wall is huge. Getting the random stat gears w/good ichors, the raid gear to put the ichors on, the enchants, the transcending, the enhancing… phew.

Then you have cards, attributes, arts, seals, your actual skill/stat build, and hoping your character isn’t an absolute mix-matched abomination that brings your efficiency down. It’s a LOT to take in for someone new being rushed to end-game. Basically you need to research a ton and make sure your first character is meta as hell so you can work on making what you really want after the fact. In that regard this game doesn’t feel as exploratory to a newcomer as it may seem since you either follow the meta or struggle on your own/give others a laugh because of your confusing build. xD

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#11

I think some of this is that there are just too many ways to enhance or min/max your character. Each individual system isn’t really that confusing, but to a new player there are so many systems that it becomes total overload, and many new players think they need to go at all of them all at once or that you can rush certain ones.

IMC could probably reduce these (like why is transcendence still a thing? Just give us the power of t10 weapons at this point, it’s this time-gate for new players that makes no sense and adding a free t10 set of quest gear doesn’t necessarily alleviate the problem) but decided instead to leave the countless systems in place and just make things “easier” to obtain which only reduced their value, bloating the value of silver, while only continuing to decrease the silver gain from maps and force players who want to make silver quickly to grind out the same content (CMs) over and over and over and over. Things like this also encourage RMT.

I don’t think it’s up to IMC to create guides though, nor do I think players would broadly want them. The issue here is that many guides are outdated, and become outdated extremely quickly due to the nature of the way IMC handles updates. IMC doesn’t do balance changes in any kind of smart way, they spread out buffs across many months but only for a few classes at a time, change skills around completely, so it’s a bit daunting even as a veteran player to create a guide which will become obsoleted in a few months. Meta shifts are normal in games, but when only 1-2 classes are balanced at a time, completely in a vacuum, things get out of whack very quickly and you find that only players who have stayed very active through all the changes will be able to help new players at all–let alone themselves.

3 Likes
#12

Yes exactly. Some methods have a help topic available in-game though while others do not. Enhancing is fairly easy to grasp. There’s a quick quest in town that briefly explains it too which is nice, while giving the player some trial anvils and a decent shove in the right direction. Transcending is also rather straightforward and easy to understand. It’s when you get to ichors that things get especially confusing.

Players will tell you that ichors from level 400 gear are not even worth your time because the stats from 430 are far superior. But… how do you get to those 430 mobs and efficiently grind there without the ichors from 400s? How or where should a player go for the base equipment needed for ichors? What are the success rates and penalties for failure when working with ichors?

Imo the freebie Savinose gear is simply a bandaid, a veil, to put some blinders on newcomers to the grind that they will inevitably face should they want another character that doesn’t use the same type of gear/weapons as their first. I started with a cleric and wasn’t sure if I should be using 1h mace with a shield or 2h, so I picked up all 3 + a rod and a trinket. That’s all 5 free from the box and anything else I may need down the line I have to figure it out myself. +11 10 star legend gear is nothing to scoff at for a player like me. My mage is sitting at 385 and likely won’t be progressing much further until I completely get a grasp of all this stuff and make a whole new set of leather gear and a nice staff for them.

You may feel like the game isn’t responsible for explaining these things but I have to disagree. If they want to avoid confusion regarding outdated content and memes online then they should be taking matters into their own hands. They have a help section that they can conveniently keep updated and use for providing correct information.

#13

The success rate of ichors is 10% if you do the normal method using one item. You can also buy transmute kits from Teliavelis and get 2 of the same item for a 100% success rate–either 2 fixed pieces (Asio, Ignas, etc) or 2 random ichors. If you do this with the random ichors, it will choose a random one to give you of the 2.

The best route to take right now is do the ep 11 episode chain to get the Savinose rewards. This will allow you to do Legend Skiaclipse for Varna gear. Varna gear, depending on what server you’re on, should be relatively cheap to buy pieces of, so make sure you are both running your 5 Varna runs weekly as well as farming some silver to just buy cheaper pieces you’re missing.

The Savinose will also help you farm 430 areas a bit more quickly, or at the very least get into lower level map CMs, which gives you the opportunity for primus gear to begin rolling. Legend Varna gear holds 2 ichors, a fixed one and a random one. The fixed one comes from raids (Asio, Wastrel, Ignas, Unique Skiaclipse, weekly solo bosses Misrus or Moringponia), the random ones are the 430 primuses/berthases.

For the primus gear, you want to use old blue or artisan mags to max out the number of colored sockets, then use a sandra’s blue magnifier to get the actual colors you want (2 green and 2 purple for armor, in most cases, and 2-3 green/purple on weapons for 2h, in most cases–this varies heavily on your class). When the colors are correct, powder reidentify at a normal blacksmith until you get the exact stats you want or as close to it as possible, ie 3 of 4 and blue sandra’s your last remaining missing stat (can be expensive, you really wanna powder reroll as much as you can). When you are satisfied with the stats, you then want to use red detailed mags to get the values of each stat as high as possible. The max values per stat/gear type are here https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1881 EXCEPT HP/SP recovery which were reduced.

The optimal fixed ichors will vary depending on your class.

Remember also that while weapon type ichors must match, armor type ones do not (but they need to be in the right slot). For example, you can ichor a pair of primus cloth gloves to your Legend Varna Leather Gloves, but you can’t ichor plate pants to your Varna boots.

Two handers are very strong right now, and trinkets can only be used with two handers. This means that you really want a staff–but you can probably get by without issues to the point where you can make one. If you do like rods/shields (works well in PVP for defensive types) then go with that.

Would require them to play their own game.

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#14

thanks Csiko! This is all really helpful (and condensed too which is perfect). When I searched things before I would need several tabs open lol. Even though my questions were completely rhetorical I learned a lot of things that I didn’t know before from your post. I’ll try to get into some LSkia runs and see what happens. It seems like that is what I need to do at this point at least to get the ball rolling.

With the Free Savi gear I am still unable to solo all of OW15 CM. I can get to stage 6 and complete that with about 4 minutes to spare but it’s apparent that 7 will not fly. Their HP skyrockets on stage 6 as it is.

I’m on Klaipeda btw, if you’re there and remember anything else that you want to share I’m happy to hear some more tips. team name is Silkie :slight_smile: ty again!

#15

This is by design, CM 6 and 7 are really meant to be party-completed and you can only expect to complete ow15 cm7 solo after you have much better gear.

Till then cm5 solo is a good way to make some silver. In the episode12 maps doing CMs is pretty much party-only content as it is inefficient to do them solo due to the monster’s damage and HP totals.

#16

Isn’t stage 7 only 200k more silver? I’ve been doing fine stopping after stage 6 OW15 with the free Savi gears so far. I think it’s about a mil or so? Not bad tbh but they definitely do have much, much more HP than stage 5.

Also, another question… what are the penalties for being in a party? The money is split or the rewards are less? Curious if there’s a downside at all.

#17

The penalties for running CMs in a party are gone, so it is always a good choice to run with a party if you can.

for OW15, cm6-7 are only worth it if you can finish them in close to a minute, otherwise the silver/hour ratio is better to just do cm5s over and over.

#18

Are you sure? I think only on the EP12 maps where the money is not split. I always do the old maps alone because of that…

#19

Possibly, i havent run a party CM on an old map so would need someone else to confirm in lieu of me rifling through old patch notes :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

did they remove the numbers of runs you can do each day for CMs?