Tree of Savior Forum

There's a fatal flaw with early damage classes

General Discussion
#1

Classes with a large amount of utility and buffs such as Thaumaturge or Priest will always scale decently if you put them into a build.

Classes such as Pyromancer will inevitably become nothing more than filler damage in between your actual damage combos in the late game.

The reason for this is that the power of buffs seems to stay consistent throughout all tiers. Additionally, many utility classes provide unique buffs, meaning that there’s no competition. Meanwhile, damage is mostly numbers. There’s classes like Cryomancer who can present helpful CC when their damage stops being effective, but that’s a unique case.

This complaint is coming out of my attempts to make a build where Pyromancer could shine. In almost every case, Psychokino or Warlock were simply better options than investing into Pyromancer at all. I don’t think it’s right that early classes don’t scale as well into late game. If you go to Pyromancer’s 3rd circle, your damage shouldn’t suddenly become nigh-useless once you have a T6 or T7 damage class.

A later tier of classes should give you new options to include in your damage cycle or ways to cover your offensive weaknesses, such as not having enough AoEs, but they shouldn’t obsolete your existing skills.

EDIT: I’d like to add that I don’t think there should be no “wrong way” to make a build. I’m just saying that a DPS class brought to C3 shouldn’t be obsoleted by a later DPS class at C1.

5 Likes
#2

I don’t think Thaum scales well at all, since all buffs are still 1:1 and not percentual. It’ll fall off eventually. The main reason you see pyromancer fall off it’s because it’s a rank 2 class, and when we get rank 9 it will probably happen to the thaumaturge too.

Priest is a bit better because buffs scale with SPR. So in theory anything that improves with stats or has a % component to it will scale…somewhat adequately…while the rest will fall off.

Game was designed around the concept that your earlier classes don’t matter that much, so this dynamic most likely won’t change over time.

1 Like
#3

So what you’re telling me is that my perceived design flaw is actually farther spread than I thought and affects support classes as well, which is a bigger issue.

There shouldn’t be “falling off” when you dedicate yourself to a class. This game needs more scaling.

Something I’d like to propose: C2 and C3 classes should have their values increase every time you advance to a new tier. That way your investment isn’t trivialized. EDIT: Hell, C1 classes could even scale up, so long as the values are kept in proportion so that C2 and C3 classes scale up to higher numbers.

3 Likes
#4

I think when you actually get the attributes up it will scale with your weapon + stat damage. I haven’t looked to in-depth into the mechanics so I’m just speculating here.

#5

I agree man. But it is what it is. Someone more informed will put up the relevant interview quote.

#6

Damage attributes give 1% more damage per level. So when capped, the skill will deal double damage (or maybe the skill effect will double, idk). That’s pretty much it.

1 Like
#7

didn we have a topic about this already somewhere somewhen? tho pyro still scales well with icewall + psy combo - sure it falls behind after a while and becomes less significant (specially after you go rune) but its still additional dmg the dmg isn being recycled into zero or anything

plus (taking from a couple videos on youtube) feather can suck his own balls to heal (ya it sounds nasty but its the dirty truth x.x)

#8

Doesn’t the the attribute % damage include the modifiers? It shouldn’t be just the base damage that gets improved with the attribute right?

i.e.

attribute at 0%:
Base skill 100 damage + weapon 100 damage + stat 100 damage for a total of 300 damage.

attribute at 100%
2 x (100 + 100 + 100) = 600 damage instead of (2 x 100) + 100 + 100 = 400

This has a real impact because end game damage will like more like this:

Attribute at 100%

2 x (100 + 20,000 + 30,000) = 100,200

Attribute at 200%

3 x (100 + 20,000 + 30,000 ) = 150,300

Just making up numbers here but you get the point about scaling.

#9

I don’t know. I hope it is. But as you know, the skill damage value is more often that not the deciding factor. Strongest weapons so far hit for 300-600 and STR/INT scale 1:1 with physical/magical damage.

#10

I hope that’s how it actually is. I know myself and others will be doing lots of damage tests on the founder’s server.

If that’s the case, then perhaps earlier classes won’t be completely obsoleted.

#11

You forgot about the attributes of the skills, do you have them maxed? They usually doubles the dps of your character once maxed. I don’t think you had them maxed, hell, even at halve the potential.

#12

Gotta love all the speculation from new people that are lazy to use search function:

Attribute does in fact acts as multiplier to end damage after all your weapon and character stats and enemy defense are factored in. So 100 skill damage + 200 weapon damage + 300 stat damage with 100% attribute will yield 1200 damage overall. That also explains why multihit skills do not fall off at end-game.

OP mentioned pyro, but Pyros have one of the best multihit skills ingame - fireball and true AoE from flame ground, Pyro C2 > Linker is an amazing combo for soloing.

#13

HAHHAHAHAA…

Ewww xD

#14

Wohoo thread closed.

#15

No knowledge of the game. But sprouting discussions.

Check tosbase pleaes.

Max attribute level 100.
It will enhance most damage… check the big modifier thread… USE search function.

#16

Know enough to remember that attributes scales with other damage modifiers.

And 0 contribution to said thread from you.

#17

These are other attributes.

And yes they scale together with it.
But some scale before def calculations, others after it.
And then again some add simple damage to the end.

xD

Edit: And pssssh some are hidden~

1 Like
#18

This has been voiced for some time now. I agree completely.

There has. Been some small efforts to scale abilities, mainly buffs/heals, but most damage classes don’t scale…

No point in 80 classes if you are only solely defined by your final ranks…

#19

Except IMC did that intentionally, they said they want early game classes to fall off so players could make mistakes in class selections early on.

While i disagree with this approach it is what it is.

1 Like
#20

^^ this.

can you imagine being level 400 and picking a class and hating it later on? normally you would have to restart the entire character but now all you would have to do is modify your tree.

1 Like