Tree of Savior Forum

There shoudnt be a "wrong way" in Class-Builds

Class and Rank
#1

I’ve seen so many builds and threads about them where people state that X build is just trash, or “never go X path”. That states a VERY IMPORANT flaw in this game’s design right now.

Different builds and classes were created to give this game variety. It its CRUCIAL that this variety is possible, not having simply one or two main paths for “max dps” “max survivability” and the rest just being trash.

I’m a C2 Archer C2 Quarrel right now, and it made very depressed that after much research on chossing my build, I’ve seen that the game open your eyes to just not make Quarrel again, maybe not even Archer class at all. So, this should be a top priority right now: Make sure the game’s variety of skill, stats, attributes, itens and etc REALLY WORKS, not just give you empty options while the best will always be obvious. The same goes for going Cleric C2/3 for example, there are many other cases.
This may not show to be very important right now, but at OBT and later game, with more PvP, interaction between classes, and the economic ecosystem flowing, you need it, you simply need.

I suggest that if not on this CBT, maybe if we have another, simply give out higher EXP/DROP whatever and the ability to roll back the class options too, so people can just test-balance this for a more late game experience and really see what works or not. If IMC dont wanna make this publicly, just test out themselves, but don’t leave it like that.
I’ve seen so many incomparables disable skills that in an actual 5v5 PvP may be broken.

8 Likes
#2

There will be always combinations that aren’t good due to the fact that most classes have fixed role and combining some roles might no have good results.

BUT part of this is also because of the bad balance of the game. In your case, quarrel shooter is more a support class, so you need to match it with a good damage classe, wich Archer alone is not (due to game balance).

#3

Unfortunately, with so many classes to choose from, there will always be a wrong build (thank heavens this is just beta). Anyways, I am at Archer C1, QS C2 (planning to go all the way to QS C3) then perhaps Rogue C2.

There was a time when I realized in the packed city of Klaipėda, that I am the only one in the entire city that chose Quarrel Shooter… it makes me feel unique. :smiley: Yeah, I am just a sucker for under-dog classes/builds.

All in all, just have fun with your build.

2 Likes
#4

There are combination that yield no result at all, not just bad result. For example highlander -> hoplite, those 2 have nothing to do with each other, yet somehow highlander can advance to hoplite.

There are also advancement that is significantly weaker than other, but you choose because you don’t want to waste an advancement (like highlander -> hoplite), for example, swordman c2.

There are a lot of balance issues that need to be addressed

#5

All paths are viable but some are better than others (considering the play style choice) because SYNERGY.

2 Likes
#6

All these Quarrel Shooters claiming the class is hard to lvl know about Grand Cross?

If you know about it and still suffer…
dang that must be REALLY terrible.

#7

just like real life, not all path lead to happiness…

some paths bloody sucks, learn that fast and prepare before hand.

#8

My respect to all the people grabbing QS2/3, same with those that went Diev2/3 when statues were still bugged…

You guys got massive cojones.

That aside, it is expected that with the amount of classes in this game there will be classes/combos that will not work that well. That isn’t to say they don’t work, it is just that they aren’t the most optimal.

There are certainly things that need adjustment, for example, atm Barb/Pyro (Barb specially) is too strong compared to other classes. Either they need to be brought down a knot or, imo the correct solution, the other classes need to be brought up to a level playing field. With this amount of classes it is important that everyone can find a class that fits the role they want to play and that makes them feel useful. If a class makes you regret that choice and feel useless even when trying to fulfill its proposed role then there’s something wrong with it. cough cough QS cough cough

2 Likes
#9

Having put one rank into Quarrel Shooter also left me a bit bitter but I got used to the class and ended up kinda liking it. Keep in mind I’m in no way saying that it’s perfect.

I think there’s 2 issues here with Quarrel Shooters.
First, the balance of the class. I think we can all agree that it simply feels underwhelming compared to most other. we don’t really have options since one of our bread and butter skills, Stone Shot, requires a second skill, Pick Rock, to be functional. While I understand that this is a throw back to the old RO days with the thief class skills, I believe this may have been a bad design choice. The fact that you have to invest in 2 skills to get the benefit of only one seems counter-productive. I do acknowledge that it does help limit Stone Shot, no class alone should be able to perma-stun due to a spammable skill, but this leaves us the impression of only having 3 skills to play with. The other 2 skills, Pavise and Caltrops, are good on paper but not quite useful in many situations. Being able to summon a wall to help against projectiles would be awesome…if it blocked more than one type of projectiles. So far, only arrows can be blocked, leaving us with a skill that feels useless in a boss situation or in many grinding situations. If the specialty of the class is to use cover to control the battlefield, it would be greatly appreciated to actually be able to use said cover at our advantage. Caltrops on the other hand, I have no real problem with. While it does feel underwhelming, it serves it’s purpose as a zoning and damage tool. It is easy to be mislead into believing the skill has low damage, but since every lvl in it gives an additional caltrop it can hit surprisingly hard if you can land all of them. even if the increase in damage seems low (eg: going from 120 dmg to 135(random number, take with a grain of salt)), one additional caltrop gives you one extra tick of damage (eg: going from 3 120 caltrops to 4 135 caltrops is technically 135+15+15+15 extra damage). Sure, having a slow on those pointy metal traps would be awesome, but it is usable as it is.

The second part is more about having the opportunity to fully use the class. From my experience, the Quarrel Shooter is more useful in PvP situations than PvE. Pavise really shines when fighting another archer, being able to block an entire Multi-Shot is a godsend. Caltrops will punish the enemy for closing in. I’ve had people QQ on Stone-Shot after a duel since they could not do anything as they were stunned for most of the fight. It’s been a blast PvPing and demonstrating the potential of the QS, but there’s one major problem to it: the lack of PvP focused content. Now, I know this is a beta and of course not all parts of the gameplay have been implemented, but that might just be the problem alot of players are facing at the moment. Maybe there are parts of the game where certain class are designed to fully shine that simply isn’t available at the moment. Take the Teardown skill for instance; it’s specifically mentioned that it could break the Diev’s statues among other things, hinting us that it is a PvP focused skill.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Combined, those 2 points can somewhat demonstrate why alot of players are feeling let down by the QS. If at least one of the two could be adressed, we’d see alot less of posts like these.

1 Like
#10

Class balance could really benefit from more polish and synergy between different classes, that i definitely agree with.

But some classes really don’t work together, and i think it’s almost by design, but it still means some combinations are just dead weights.
Sadhu/priest for example, Blessing just does not trigger on out of body. Sacrament doesn’t add it’s holy dmg or second hit to oob despite it being a auto attack. There’s nothing making it clear they just don’t work together, but it’s quite noticeable when you pick said combination.
That and priest can’t prevent damage consistent enough for oob to attack reliably, hah.

And some skills are just really crappy designed and or translated/described. Nobody will ever deduce how exorcise works from it’s description alone;
“Creates a exorcism circle that damages enemies inside, then deals continuous damage”
Which in practice functions more like:
“Creates a exorcism circle that expires in 10 seconds, if a enemy touches the circle then it applies a continuous damage effect onto that enemy and the circle expires. Cannot hit more then 1 enemy”

And it frequently gets resisted, but even in that sad state it’s one of the best cleric damage skills.
I also really dislike how it straight up doesn’t scale with any stat or damage type. is that even supposed to happen?

#11

I have to say I truly facepalmed when I read this post. If this is your biggest issue with the game at this stage I’m amazed.

People keep crying about balance issues at this stage of cbt, how about crying about the fact that the game is totally broken in many parts, has a lot of bugs, half of the stuff don’t even work?

#12

It is closed beta. Bugs being in the game at this stage of the development is to be expected.

Balance issues are much more worrisome and if TOS wants to have any chance of being a competitive(as in, being able to compete with other games in success) MMO then these issues need to be addressed ASAP.

2 Likes
#13

Each class has its own role and niche, they can’t be good at everything and with every other class.

Stop complaining about the wrong things. Quarrel Shooter don’t need more damage or AoE, because that is not his job. He needs more identity though (Stone Shot, Rapid Fire and Running Shot are like Heavy Shot, Multi Shot and Swift Step version 2…)

Archer tree is not underpowered.

Swordie classes don’t blend well in multiple ways so different weapon types can have different playstyles. Removing weapon requirements would only decrease the number of “viable” builds.

#14

100% agreed. The issue here is atm some classes either aren’t clear about the role they fill or don’t do it well at all. Good examples are Thaumaturge and Quarrel Shooter.

QS is a defensive class in an Archer tree. While having a defensive class in the Archer tree is fine, there are a few issues here. Out of all the skills from QS the one that gets the most positive feedback is Stone Shot, which has a nice stun/knockback but still isn’t considered good enough to get circle 2/3 for. The other skills offer you another version of Multi Shot, a ground based slow, some walls, and skill to breakdown objects? The kit itself has problems, it makes it feel like QS is supposed to be a stationary turret type class, yet it gets some laughable support to do so. If Kneeling Shot was still Archer1 and did allow you to use skills like Stone Shot and Rapid Fire then I feel like the class would have a lot more character, but as is it feels bland and out of place (heck, kneeling shot could even be a QS skill).

That said, I may be misinterpreting the class entirely, and if anyone has found a good way to make QS fill a role well please let me know about it.

Thaumaturge I feel may actually lack a little love and might not be in such a bad place as most feedback suggests. My main issue here is they get an attack buff skill at rank 4 that has to complete with Priest, who outshines it. The two body size changing skills have more draw backs than actual benefits and Transpose feels like it has the wrong stats on it.

My point is, if a class has a defined role it shouldn’t be straight up worse than another class, but more than anything, that class should have the potential to properly fill said role. It is also important that the classes are viable when taking into account synergy within that class as well as other ranks, just take a look at how strong Highlander>Barb is just due to 1 attribute.

2 Likes
#15

Honestly, the biggest issue with quarrel shooter is the same with archer overall: your damage gets slashed in half when fighting large enemies (ie, EVERY SINGLE BOSS).

they also desperately need some sort of non-situational defense. particularly in C1, which is pretty lacking in places you might consider putting skillpoints.

#16

Yeah, thauma needs some love on Shrink/Swell Body and Transpose mainly.

[quote=“Soulsong, post:15, topic:99977”]
Honestly, the biggest issue with quarrel shooter is the same with archer overall: your damage gets slashed in half when fighting large enemies (ie, EVERY SINGLE BOSS).
[/quote]Each upgrade on your 1h/2h bow will reduce the size penalty damage, up to 20% on medium and 40% on large (+10 weapon).

#17

Tell me how those 2 skill levels rework the entire class mechanic… Also considering his attack to be on a lv40 tier, how would you use it at endgame?

#18

I think the developers tried very hard, they provide hidden buff for these classes to work out with balance between each. However, the number of combination maybe so great that some classes may fail off slightly.

2 Likes
#19

Some skills/classes are meant for grinding and some are meant for pvp, and even some are meant for making money and crafting items. Not all the skills in the game are for grinding alone.

#20

If this is true, I can’t help but wonder why IMC has such an attraction towards hiding game mechanics from its player. I can tell you that the various damage modifier stuff for Archers aren’t anywhere in the game, that’s for sure. Like I’d have no way of knowing that upgrading your bow reduces the size penalty without reading the forum.