Tree of Savior Forum

There needs to be a reason to sub

General Discussion
#41

Honestly, if they would give a straight up list of features they want to implement and a discribe where they wanna lead this game to, that would be enough for me to pay 15€ every single month. obviously they need to work on that list and we need to see progress otherwise i’d just stop to play.

i know alot of people think different and they play the game now, they want to pay because they know it gives them an advantage over people that can’t/wont pay for tokens.

I, and basically every other person would benefit the most from that money by the progress they can make with it. Id rather pay for virtually nothing but a content update that is announced a month ago so i know what i actually pay for.

30% exp - unfair
Movementspeed - unfair
Trading/marketplace- unfair

id rather get some visual only stuff that shows that i support the game, the concept, the future develoment. But therefore a healthy and fair environment for every individual playing.

I know, all that stuff wont lead to the point where i stay in GvG and say i won because im paying every month, but yet we are atlevel 280, i think 30% more exp becomes a really big deal in later updates, if the exp curve and the bad grind spots stay like this.

subscribers should get a bigger/fully unlocked inventory and storage, cute little pets that follow one around (thats all they do)

I said this already, TAKE OUT ALL HEADGEARS AND MAKE THEM SHOP ONLY, NO STATS. Give us Dye options, for HS and costumes.

I’d rather have a shop with shitloads of visual stuff without stats than anything that helps people to progress faster through this game.

I know alot of people that would rather buy 3 costumes for 10€ than a single one for 20€, prices are not reasonable anymore. Fix this. Give us more options of costumes. Give us cute little auras (SUBTLE ONES).
So many things could have been made, so many creative ways to make money ESPECIALLY IN THIS GAME, and yet IMC takes the most uncreative road, dissapointing

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#42

This whole conversation is disgustingly revealing. If these forums represented the actual MMO customer base in any capacity, the whole industry would wither and die, as developers would never be able to recoup their development costs.

I think what we’re really dealing with here is two things: A player base unaccustomed to paying money for things (these people need to be shed like fleas, for an MMO to succeed - they are literally parasites), and a player base accustomed to entirely free private servers that were successful specifically because they stole an entire game to peddle for free.

More shocking to me is how the definition of P2W has evolved to represent anything that offers a temporary advantage. Ya’ll are out of your minds. I’ve seen pay to win. iRO went pay to win - those upgrade items and cash box headgears, holy god. You haven’t seen pay to win until you’ve had to shell out a hundred dollars just to make your class work with the latest meta.

The good news is, your complaints don’t count in the wall of people paying $50 for founders packages! Keep crying, IMC will be mopping up those tears with dollar bills from real players.

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#43

It seems odd that you’re comparing a community park, a location that is non-profit and receives funding through their Department of Parks and Recreation, taxes, grants, and donations to remain open to a business that at the end of the day seeks to turn a profit.

But if you want to compare the two, yes you can play all day at a park for free, but the moment funding stops then the park closes. Similarly, the moment a business stops making a profit it closes and in both cases your recreational activity is gone. It’s just easier to see the latter, because you’re committing your own money directly into the mix and everyone is stricter with their own money.

Besides what you deem high enough quality may not be what someone else deems high quality and vice versa. Again, worthiness of a product is subjective.

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#44

Actually, I’m pretty sure you are paying it. Taxes pay for parks and everyone pays taxes. If you have a large amount of people paying a small amount towards something, you dont need to take as much. People who don’t even go to the park has even paid for it.

#45

Even with that factor why did they not just make the game subscription based because if that was the case they would guarantee the income also people would subscribe because its the ragnarok 2 we wanted for instance I’m not gonna lie I would subscribe and then add a cash shop with these benefits if I owned a company and wanted it for a cash grab that’s the sort of thing I would do.

Also ive seen games with subscriptions that provide such benefits so I am not just making it up for the sake of it.

#46

I wouldn’t pay more than $10 for the VIP package, let alone $20 per month. This is more expensive than p2p titles additionally we have a cash shop on top of that. You can’t have both, IMC, this is not how it works.

Also, as Gungnir already mentioned, the movement speed bonus is clearly p2w, especially in pvp and locking the marketplace behind a paywall is bad and will only hurt the games economy.

We need bonuses such as:

  • more inventory space
  • more weight
  • bigger loot radius
  • 30% is fine
  • higher drop rates

All of these are convenience features which help you safe time, but don’t directly give you a power advantage against other players.

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#47

Except higher drop rates ^^. Sounds legit.

1 Like
#48

lets look at the long term people using 30 days as one month and $20 for what you are paying for please tell me your result think of this as a quiz.

$20 divided by 30 days show the result then tell me the result if you did it on a weekly basis because i want to know if the result is as expensive as people proclaim it to be because by my maths its totally affordable and people are being money grubbers as someone has said before hand on a daily bases people throw money away on junk food from fast food place’s on if we did it by what people justify this game as expensive then junk food is considered a freaking rich person luxury.

#49

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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#51

I’m not against it, however, the issue I have is that people don’t seem to be taking into consideration the cost that is required to maintain and run an MMORPG.

The cheaper you offer a product the higher number of sales you require to turn a profit and I believe that is where the issue is. As I mentioned in a previous post the cost to maintain and run an MMORPG can be staggering. So, if you provide a product at a cheaper price you’re gambling on the fact that more people will purchase the product. Yes, the likely outcome is that more people will probably purchase, but if that isn’t enough people?

How much in total do you think ToS has to produce a month to pay for servers, bandwidth, equipment, maintenance, expansions, employee payment, employee healthcare plan, employee retirement plans, etc? Going off my previous posts of cost paying 5 servers at 100k each a month is 500k a month, 100 employees at $12/hr at 40 hours is 48K a month and that doesn’t include health care, dental care, retirement plans or anything a worthwhile development company probably offers. What if the servers range in prices? What if 2/5 servers are 200k instead of 100k? That’s suddenly 700k a month in servers, 3/5 at 200k? 800k a month in servers. Seems like that $1.5 mil revenue from 300k players paying $5 is going down the drain rather quickly without taking into account anything else like the rest of the products I’ve listed or any additional servers.

Heck, why do you think they made the announcement on steam that they won’t be providing regional servers at launch unless the market for them grows?

#52

Personally, i have no issues even if the token ends up having some p2w feature. For a simple reason: you only need one per month, and their effects aren’t cumulative. Thus everyone is on an equal footing, as long as they use tokens. Assuming that the shop hasn’t got other p2w elements, that is.
Of course i realize it is bad for f2p players…but i would guess that’s the point of such a model. It has to feel like an upgrade, or conversely, playing without a token must not be as good as playing with one. Else people wouldn’t buy and use them.

That said, i think token prices are a bit too high. I would rather see them on the 15$ range than their current price.

#53

I totally disagree with you on everything. You obviously don’t know why the mmo market is dying right now. It’s because of people like you, that pay to win and see no problem at that, that the companies keep ruining their games because they believe people will keep buying power. The only way to thrive is monthly subscription or f2p+cosmetics.

1 Like
#54

I never said once that p2w was okay, I said that having a sub needs to be appealing and the stuff in the cash shop needs to appeal for whatever reason, IMC need to find away to balance making people want to spend money but not having it impact the game in a negative way, its a fine balance thats tough to get right, go too far one way and you’ll struggle to keep players, countless f2p mmos went to far for p2w cash shop and wildstar went too far of no reason to pay for anything.

Take world of tanks as a example, the majority of players wont ever spend money on their game so they need to make the ones who will spend money spend enough to keep them making money

“So if you do something wrong, or if you try to be greedy and milk [players for money], people will realize that [and] just start leaving [negative] feedback–not only inside our particular gaming community, but also on Facebook and on Twitter,”

as the ceo puts it free-2-win is something they strive for.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/most-people-won-t-pay-for-world-of-tanks-on-xbox-360/1100-6417697/ source

I dont know how you got me saying that they need to appeal to people to encourage them to spend money as me striving for them to make it p2w, thats one thing I dont want, I just dont want the game to die because people have no reason to spend money on it.

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#55

I don’t know if you noticed but it’s 30% on exp from monsters only, so technically it excludes exp cards which are a big part of the overall exp. However, I agree with most of everything you said.

#56

I think they need to focus on cosmetics like how it was supposed to be. Should have started the week before easter and sold some easter cosmetics in the store. Maybe an easter bunny pet that hides eggs if you stand still. IDK something creative that people would want. An weird easter egg hat. I think people like those, but not me personally.

Now, if they really want to make some money, event cosmetics could be tradeable. i think people would buy extra and would be in demand since you cant get them when the event is over and will rise in value.

Pets. Why are there no pets to buy in the store. I’m looking at This. The store pets could be an additional pet that floats by you or something instead of being a combat pet. so another pet slot.

Weapon skins? That would be neat.

Lots of things they aren’t taking advantage of. instead they do things like enchantment scrolls which nobody wants.

Mounts. I know swordsman have a class that can use mounts, but thats no reason to not let others get mounts. Let the swordsman class be able to move faster with the mount than others and be able to fight on it. Thats an entire line of cosmetics they can do.

Special emote items. Use the item and your character does something cool. Lets say its 4th of july. Buy a firework emote and your character lights off a roman candle… something like that. It could be reusable.

This is turning into a thread of its own… im done now.

#57

no in fact its because there are too many mmo at the moment that cause’s that because mmo need people because that technically is one of the defining factors of an mmo as more mmo appear some people like them some don’t it splits the community’s and keeps splitting them.

Has nothing to do with a optional payment method that could endorse pay to win motives but what also kills mmo is negative comments like your one turning the community into something disliked giving it the impression that its filled with children squabbling over a cookie… before you say but p2w makes people look for other mmo in fact its because people put it in that light its like any insult really look at a person with a terminal illness that is transmitted in some form when a person hears about it they avoid that person like the plague regardless how nice that person is even if they don’t have a terminal illness that is transmitted people will still avoid that person because they heard it.

“sorry kids your gonna have to share a cookie ill split it in two for you”
“BUT HE GOT A BIGGER PEICE !!! that’s no fair” (even when there the same size)

Be respectful of each other stop pointing fingers to who is to blame when you have no evidence to the reason please.

#58

World Of Warcraft sub - 12.99
Tree Of Savior token - 18

You people are treating IMC as if it’s running on a welfare, as my friend would say it.

There’s plenty of f2p mmorpgs that are running just fine without outlandish prices and restrictions. Hell, some are even running without convenience items, but just on cosmetics.

IMC is greedy, that’s all. Probably trying to copy/paste the practice of Nexon, the way I see it.

3 Likes
#59

Yeah it’s costing more than FFXIV and it’s not quite as polished as that game, which is in release mind you.

They need to adjust prices if that’s the way it’s going to be. It’s bad enough that Black Desert Online charges like $25.00 USD for costumes. I don’t want ToS to have the same kind of cash shop which is used primarily by whales. That’s not the best way to make money I think. Lots of smaller purchases is.

3 Likes
#60

nothing wrong with the price of 18 bucks if - look at the founders packs you get 2 for free + some crap + TP worth 40+ Bucks (probably) - they include more of these packs or some kind of “limited sales packs” etc - and whoever is desperate on getting a token right here right now may as well pay the original price - nobody dies or gets banned if hes not buying them

“happy easter” pack - 2x token 30 days + “happy rabbit headgear” = 25$ // just an example

make unique headgear “limited pack sale” exclusive + always include 2x token so the buyer is more convinced to sell one of them - make it monthly packs on top of that and you got a business running (but only 1 day available for purchase so active guys are being rewarded by such packs)

guys gonna feel happy cause they spent less than the original price in the cash shop + get some cute headgear wich is not purchaseable otherwise

instead of headgear only you could include pets as well but those shouldn have too much of an advantage - only the usual early level advantage for new chars if you trained them hard

1 Like
#61

all I have to say is vote with your money ever heard that phrase?

If something is too expensive and not enough people buy them a company will lower its price accordingly if something is too low and too many people are buying it a company will raise its price’s in the end its the consumers that dictate the price and to be honest $18 is not expensive at all as you must take into account of value vs time.

Those who play the game for instance 2 hours a day will get more value out of it then someone who plays the game for 1 hour a day.

This example is if it was $20 rounded numbers are easier to work out.
2 hours a day would indicate $0.30 per hour 1 hour a day would indicate $0.60 per hour what if you played for 6 hours a day that’s $0.10 per hour see values change based on the time and in those extreme case’s where people play for 12 hours a day that’s $0.05 per hour… now I want to play for 12 hours DAMN IT !!!

I could go deeper and add to the account of the 30% exp the rate at witch it takes you to kill mobs based in the time span of each of those hours validating that for instance if it was $0.10 that every monster killed would have a value killing 10 mobs a hour would mean each mob bonus exp costs $0.01 but now I am speaking crazy talk.

Before you ask no I suck at maths its why I stick with rounded numbers lol

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