Tree of Savior Forum

The Problem: Dragoon

Class and Rank Swordsman
#82

Zornhau with attribute has 4 times the attack of Gae Bolg so of course it deals 4 times the damage…

Don’t feel bad guys. Of course Lancer is supposed to be stronger than Dragoon.
Just look at the other Classes R7 vs R8. PD/Kabbalist are weaker than Inquisitor and Taoist. Cannoneer and Musketeer are weaker than Mergen and Hackapella.
Only case where it’s the other way around is the Wizard tree where Sage and Enchanter are supporters while Featherfoot and Warlock are damagedealers and thus stronger than their R8 counterparts.

#83

I wish gae bulg can be aimed like spear throw or have attribute to change it to melee range.
Additionally, make thrown spear easier to see. Sometimes I cant find where to pick.

I understand that dragoon is debuff and set up reliant so I dont expect damage at doppel level.

#84

Classes at the same rank with similar function should be comparable.

Corsair C3 for exemple is highly stronger than Dragoon C1, both are R7, but after all the balance changing we will have, they should be comparable (and maybe, a C3 class from the previous rank will often be better than a single rank in upper class, because you invest more to unlock “ultimate” skills).

#86

well, that’s only because Corsair got buffed/overworked already. Just look at other crappy Classes like e.g. Oracle or Pardoner C3. Classes that got rebalanced but not overworked have no chance to be as strong as the Rank 7/8 Classes.

#87

Monk C3 R7 is better than Dragoon C1, by far, even with the (overbugged laser % multiplier … don’t work atm…) ^^

No you will see, after balance, it should be balanced between C2/3 and high rank classes, it will just take a lot of time.

#88

Okay, dragoon is not what it used to be, but its still pretty good.
This is my current build: SW3>HL3>DG2
And heres a test video:

It was one of the 1st video recorded after reseting so here i still ■■■■ up the combos a little bit. Nowadays i got more equip and cards, so i hit harder and not missing the combo like in this video (cant record a new one atm cause the dpk issues).

Is the best dps class? Nope
Is a bad class? Nope
It is fun? Hell yeah!

Still can make a shitload of damage in secs, im able to solo bosses and do ET 1-40 with no problem.
The cons are that your AoE is pretty small, so its a bit tricky to gather all the mob to wipe them all with one combo. Single target stuf flike bosses is cake. Also you need a good equipment (As most class after the major update tho). This is mostly oriented to PvE. PvP is still decent but not top tier, if you manage to land an attack you pretty much wipe (except cryos, you cant pass that fucking ice shield e.e)

#89

Dragoon’s are viable, the problem is they’re comparably weaker. One of the advantages of the new combat system is that imbalances are overshadowed by equipment.

I’m well aware of Dragoon’s potential, but there are still imbalances.

Side note, in my video at 0:34 there’s a perfect example of the problems with the class in regards to hitbox. I’m literally inside the boss not hitting him, and while I should have angled myself better, there’s not much of an excuse for not hitting him.

A class can be viable but still unbalanced, and that’s the point of the suggestion. The class should still have potential even without amazing gear, and that’s where Dragoon’s are hit the hardest, and that’s what will cause people to abandon the class.

#90

Agreed dragoon is terrible like this to shine

#91

I guess if enough ppl abandon the class 2h spear price will keep tanking.

#92

1H is in a really good place right now too, that would cause even less demand for 2H.

#93

hi, one question i have a sw2>pelt1>hop3>dra2 i just reseted the stats/skills before the event ended since i wasnt avble to figure out a good build for him, is this any good https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1113444ff.21344a5a65.153545.1a253f516579.19253a4155 ? its pve oriented

#94

That build is perfectly viable. I would personally make changes to it, but it’s completely adequate.

#95

Hi I have a similar build or at least I’m trying to make it, so if I can ask what changes would you make? (I’m interested only pve)

#96

If you want to go that Class route, use 2H, and have a high skill count, I’d go with this:

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1113444ff.3a4a5a.153545.1f213f516578.1a2a4555

Restrain’s usefulness, especially at level 5, is significantly diminished now that enemies don’t hit so hard, alternatively, Gung Ho and Concentrate are fantastic damage increases. Utilising Restrain is still possible, but for PVE I recommend opting for this.

Stabbing is a great skill when combined with the debuffs, and Pierce is really only a useful filler and the damage is better spent elsewhere. Long Stride has a high CD, slow animation, and annoying CC and for my preference I’d remove it and point another point on Spear Lunge, but overall it would increase total skill factor damage so you may want to use it.

Serpentine’s Piece type means it does fairly high damage with Spear Lunge + the Serpentine debuff, and Dragon Soar does an okay amount of damage. The rotation that you will rely so heavily on, especially as a Hoplite, is greatly improved with what I’ve given you, meaning without Gae Bulg. Gae Bulg has bad CD, overall less raw skill factor, and slows the entire skill rotation down through its hitbox and animation. It is possible to use so if you want to, you can, but I don’t recommend it.

This my personal build, it focuses on low skill count, sustained DPS and future viability:

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111444ff.3f4a5f85.1f3f657a.1a2a4555

Short term I am considering making alterations to this though, as I have a few seconds of skill downtime:

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111444ff.3f4a5f85.1f213f416578.1a2a4555

#97

The problem isn’t that dragoon is bad, the problem is the existence of Doppel that is really overpowered when you compare them together. Doppel (Bossing/AoE) is doing everything better than the other last circles classes and limits all the the swordsmen PVE options.

Yes dragoon is doing great when overstuffed but it is also the case for all the classes, you can’t really see the differences when the boss dies in less than 5 sec :joy: . Dragoon sucks in this compartment too because he has to use 2 debuffs (really long serpentine animations…) before using he can throw out his damages…

In a small bracket (party of 5) if you want to optimize your runs you won’t select Dragoon over a Doppel for the stated reasons.
IMO a class isn’t supposed to be the best in AoE and Bossing…

Concerning your choices, i agree on taking 1 point in pierce but will you really rely on a 1 handed spear for just one skill?

Good luck fellow dragoons, my SW became a spear Murmillo but is happy to leech your serpentine debuff :smiley:

#98

No, dragoon is terrible right now.

#99

Dragoons are comparatively bad, which means I agree with you that Doppels and Murmillos specifically are a better choice. If the other classes were nerfed, then yes, Dragoons would be on par. In my suggestions I don’t recommend increasing the damage except as a last resort specifically for that reason. The angle I’m coming from is making Dragoons play much more fluidly to make up for their lower skill factors, and allow them to fully utilise their debuffs properly.

And I’m not using a 1H Spear for Synchro Thrusting haha, I’m using a 1H Spear for other reasons and that’s just a convenient skill I now have access to.

#100

Dragons were weakened. Did tests going crystal mine solo in the build reset period first with a lancer and then with a dragon. Lancer was getting almost a total double damage that a dragon can do currently with the same equips and status build.

#101

And after you compare it to Doppel and see that even your lancer is still far from them.
I have the same feeling of powerlessness now than it was in Rank7 when dragon 1 was released…

We need more love for the 2-handed spear users…