Tree of Savior Forum

The Problem: Dragoon

With the initial balance I tend to agree with you, but some fairly straight forward changes are all that’s needed to correct this problem. There’s a ton of potential with what IMC has done, and they’re open to rebalancing classes so they’re aware too.

Maybe, but it depends a lot on your equipment and build.[quote=“draconsio, post:14, topic:360045, full:true”]
So far i can’t understand why nerf dragoon, when the lancer with 2 spell ( crush + quintain) does ever more damage than the old dragoon?
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IMC’s idea was stacking Serpentine + Gae Bulg but it’s impossible which is the problem Dragoon’s are stuck with now.[quote=“TacioDaito, post:16, topic:360045”]

Now i agree that dragoon, as a standalone class is a little underwhelming, but buffing him can make some builds broken. I like your idea of not directly buff him, by making his skills more consistent. The only part you need to be careful is Gae Bulg. This skill is intended to be hard to hit. But i also think that it’s very incosistent some times. A decrease in it’s cast time would be fine (something like: from 2.0s to 1.2s).
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Purely numbers wise, Dragoon’s are fine and make perfect sense. It’s when the various other factors change how much we can actually apply those numbers, IMC looked at Dragoon’s too idealistically thinking we’d be able to land our rotations more efficiently, but that’s proven to be not possible. That’s where I was headed on only increasing skill factor as a last resort.

Gae Bulg, is one of two high damage skills, with a decently long cool down, there is no reason for it to be hard to use, it’s entirely counter intuitive the the Dragoon play style. Adjusting the where it lands is crucial to Dragoon’s for effective rotation.

None of the classes that lead to Dragoon should be nerfed directly, maybe in the sense of adjusting the CC system to make something like Swordsmen less necessary for Pain Barrier, but nothing is particularly overpowered.

I was one of the the wait and see (even though the KTOS community was fairly clear on their decision and my time in KTEST was concerning). It was demoralising to say the least. As long as IMC understands the problems and addresses them quickly, then we should be content.

Dethrone was never overpowered, and was only a problem in PVP due to underlying issues, it was the only effective skill in Dragoon’s PVP kit. Dethrone was not a problem at all, and you’re entirely correct when no one cared because it was one of the few good skills. Dragoon C1 was bad for a reason. Just as I said in the OP, it was compounding issues that were exacerbated by the rebalancing.

It absolutely is. Quicker rotation, decent debuff, mounted, easier skill use, high damage, the KTOS rankings speak for themselves.


I updated the OP with more information on IMC’s plan for Dragoon’s.

yea but even classes like rode and pelta have bonus aoe ratio in their skills, drag should at least have aoe ratio on gaebulg.

AOE ratio isn’t too much of a Dragoon’s problems, it just seems to be an unnecessary buff. It could be something to consider if even after rebalancing Dragoon’s are lackluster at AOE attacks but I doubt that will be the case.

PvP is broken, don’t use it as argument. You didn’t read the part where i said that i aprove non-damage wise buffs like cast time reduction; i even suggested that gae bulg should have less cast time so it can be casted faster.

Gae Bulg is intended to be hard to hit. When i first saw this skill, i also thought that it was a poor design skill. But after some time, i realized that it was supposed to be a initiation skill, something important that rewards the player if you manage to win the “minigame” (aim and hit). After the update, hitting this skill became really important, not only because of the huge one hit damage, but because of the debuff that got buffed as well.

Different from most of the swordsman classes, Dragoon is a class with difficult rated as [Normal]. It’s suppose to be a class that needs some practice and experience, but still not very complex. Gae Bulg translates this well: it isn’t that hard to hit, but you need some requirements to hit it. Also, it works as a combo together with dethrone. You knockback with one cast of dethrone, so the mobs get rooted and in the range of gae bulg. That’s just my opinion, maybe is wrong, maybe is not.

Ps: sorry for my english

That version of Gae Bulg could have worked in the previous setting of Dragoon, but not it doesn’t due to both debuffs being necessary. Preferably I’d like to see Gae Bulg’s debuff removed and damage increased to all Dragoon skills, but seeing as that may not be practical for IMC to implement, we should settle on it being easier to use because the reality is Dragoon’s are struggling and they need to improve.

(Your English is fine. <3 )

Rather put the debuff from serpentine attribute to Gae Bulg, remove the old debuff from gae bulg and increase all skill factors like you said, because would be only one debuff instead of 2. I really like the idea of debuffs, but waste 3~4 seconds just debuffing before using your main skills is really stupid. Also, faster animations/cast times and put a remove knockback attribute for dethrone (like you suggested) would be delicious.

Make Gae Bulg range adjustable, give it the serpentine debuff and remove his own useless area debuff.

Exchange Gae Bulg and Dethone Cooldown.
Increase Dethrone and Dragontooth damage
Debug Dragon Soar, make Serpentine / Dragon Tooth able to combo with this one.
Increase Serpentine’s animation speed

Switching the debuff to Gae Bulg works, I was looking at it from a skill varience point of view but that’s fine too.

That could work, but IMC wanted to limit the skill more, in any case it could work like Spear Throw and have the option for an instant pick up.

Anyone tried the real value of the Gaebulg debuff?

Tried lvl 5 one (trying Dragoon Murmillo for fast spear picking) and it seems the plain old +30% damage (cut in 2 hit instead of one).

Anyone one tried it? Do you think it is possible it is 10% per invested point?

With my auto attack I was going from 1750 to 2000 on level 10. Gae Bulg does not appear to increase with level.


GM Papaya thinks that Dragoon’s will be further changed, as they are not as powerful as they wanted. With IMC’s focus on balance I wasn’t overly concerned that they will be rebalanced. My main concern is having the changes quickly, and really tackling the core of the problem that has been prevelent for so long.

2 Likes

This was pre-rework but maybe the damage calculation and implementation is still the same for the debuff.

/postcantbeempty20charrrrsss

Gae bulg still sucks imo. Giving it such a high attack is meaningless if it is so hard to land. And the buff is not double like ppl say, more like 15% split into 2 lines.

It’s why I’m concerned about how IMC will balance the class. If they just decide to turn the damage up, then I’ll take Dragon Soar and Dragontooth over Gae Bulg because it’s so impossible to use properly. IMC needs to rework the skill interactions not just change a few numbers. I don’t want to spend 11.2m minimum on attributes, just have them continue to be obsolete.

They could give some love for cataphract too. I hated this class before the update, but damn, kinda feeling bad for it now LOL

?_?
Have a catagoon since yersterday and i dont think its hard to land gae bulg.
After some training it works.

Btw it is normal that i cant run&charge with dragon tooth?

Goon is at least a dmg boost compared to cata but a joke against my doppel ^^

Dragontooth is a static charge skill, you get rooted when you charge it.

The only thing that dragoon can compete is boss damage. But a well geared doppel or fencer still can beat him on boss runs. Not to mention wugushi…

My Doppel got a crappy Pajitoras sword +8.
Still crits 250k with a single hit.

Gae Bulg deals 50-60k with a better weapon.

That with dt surprised me i thought it would be like doomspike^^

This 250K skill is punish, right?

Zornhau with the attribute.
I got the punish attribute just a few hours ago but it looks good too.