Tree of Savior Forum

The "Pay-To-Win" Token Scandal

General Discussion
#61

We’re discussion two viewpoints. The whole thing is subjective. No one here is arguing objectivities.

Here’s an objective truth for you though: if Tokens were sold by an NPC for a set price of silver (alongside the option to buy for TP), it would be impossible for cash-cows to buy a Token using cash and sell the Token to make Silver, eliminating one of the most efficient ways to turn cash into silver.

Another objective truth is: if NPCs sold Tokens for silver, inflation would be impossible by greedy players and/or cash cows who can artificially inflate the price of tokens by controlling an extremely limited market.

1 Like
#62

Because “convenience” is different from “advantage.” Right now, the Token is far more centered around providing significant advantage over non-token players, rather than convenience.

But thank you for pointing out your opinion: that people who have the luxury and/or comfort to pay real money deserve to have gameplay advantages over the less financial fortunate. :smirk: That is the equivalent of saying that you only care about yourself, and not the ToS community.

1 Like
#63

Correct me if I have missunderstood something, but your point is making core things for newbies easier to get?

Let me help you with that, because there are bots and our “superiors” refuse to do anything against them, newbies won’t be able to have anything easy in this game, now I’m not talking about getting a token, but new people will spend a lot of time until they can get a lvl 15 armor such as cafrisun or a level 40 decent item such as battle bracelet.
Countermeasure against bots are reducing channels and mob, bots are still in these channels farming the same while a character level 15-30 who barely knows how to play can’t compete against.

Let me upload that:

04722452c4f2023228e031147a3cebdd.png698×111 19.7 KB

I’d like to point out that Rank 8 brought lot of old players but they quit again after how things are getting managed, and newbies aren’t getting fun or can’t find what they look for in this game.
So I’m sorry for you, your friends, the whole community and the game itself, but maybe in less than a year will have bots and not much more people. Gotta be grateful to IMC and all this followers who only give them money and defend them.

11 Likes
#64

Clearly IMC is Nexon or they are in the mafia and ITOS has to pay its dues for protection from KTOS. Every purchase of a pack goes into the shared bank account of Owen Mahoney and Kim Hakkyu since they got married. This is the reason why we can’t have nice things despite more than likely being the top revenue generating server overall.

5 Likes
#65

I suspect JTOS would be the top overall revenue server since they have more players and tokens cannot be traded on market. But Nexon takes their cut of course and ITOS is direct IMC operated so maybe ITOS gives the most money back to IMC.

#66

Do not play, or deal with it

#67

Thanks for that! This is basically the point, yeah–new players (especially non-paying ones) are being so dissuaded from playing because the mountains they need to climb in order to feel like they can really enjoy the game are too high. There are so many aspects of this game I could list that dissuade new players: limited Tokens in the MP, having to pay Cash otherwise, bots and AFK farmers monopolizing grind spots and maps with sought-after items, the list goes on.

1 Like
#68

Thank you for letting me know you have no argument. :slight_smile:

#69

ok, great, so, just to be clear, no bashing and hitting and no biting my ears off.

k?

here goes…

Because it benefits both the seller and the buyer.

Easy silver per day = rich buyer = benefit Token seller

Only victim is , as u said, the new comer.

But, from business perspective, if you cant even or stingy enough not to buy atleast 100tp per month, you are not a good prospect/targeted customer and i would not prioritize your needs.

TOS is free to play, as in free for you to login , roam around idly
TOS is not free, as in free so you can be compete with the half of the server.

If you plan to play TOS without paying a single dollar, at best, u are only the lower 25% of whole population.

why would IMC anger the remaining 75% paying customer just to please you parasite 25% beggers.
(sorry for harsh word, just for hue)

i this point, i think IMC should follow jtos and make Token untradable.

this the only way to save iTOS.

1 Like
#70

Did they have early access founder packs including like 8 of them after? That I’m sure was the biggest overall gains taking them out of the red from KTOS’ flop.

#71

There are no arguments against crying
New players who like the game, will buy the token with $$ (Helping to maintain the server)

What I see here is only cry of high level player, who plays without spending a single real money, wanting to take advantage of who buys tp to sell token

1 Like
#72

i didnt hear any EA for jtos… ktos has EA when they first launch?

or EA is just another iTOS exclusive?

even indonesia TOS dont have EA… i heard Taiwan TOS dont have EA as well.

#73

Building a consumer-base is part of doing business. If you have a history of clearly prioritizing veteran customers while simultaneously demonstrating disrespecting to new customers, how is your business going to grow? New customers will leave, and will tell others not to do business with them.

Good businesses show love to the little guy and the newbies, that’s how they grow their customer-base. People who do not start by paying will often put money into a company that has shown them consideration when they were new.

New players have no reason to trust IMC when IMC (EDIT: and players like you) treats new players like disposable trash, and that is exactly my point.

2 Likes
#74

This is the point and we can’t do anything.

If you have been reading forums lately you may have seen for sure 2 threads that I made full of sarcasm and solid evidences of how bad is this game managed and the action that Gm’s and staff takes, which is barely nothing. One thread got deleted and I don’t know why the other one is still up, I don’t know either why I’m not muted and I have this account in a perfect condtion, but what I’m trying to say is that doing this kind of threads won’t benefit you, lots of blinded white knights will flag you and maybe you will get your account banned.

So yea, it’s nice to see how people shares the same point of view trying to help this game to raise but there are lot of people who are comfortable by having 3’5k players and paying IMC for gachas and stuff, but you should be really careful of what you do/say/post because there are too many lurkers here waiting to flag and wishing to ban you (as well as me and other ones trying to help in a way which implies fair play and stuff).

3 Likes
#75

Most people got numerous tokens for 5k-250k and that is absolutely true. There is always going to be people who play the market buying low and reselling for more. It’s not exactly about working harder but smarter when dealing with economics. Token hoarders are not going to care if new players will buy them because someone will eventually. That’s just how the markets work with the rich getting richer and poor even poorer.

#76

This is a funny discussion to be had.

Not because silver is easily obtainable or anything of the sorts. But because of the fact that it’s important to keep in mind that we now suffer from a severe lack of channels, that more importantly the lack of channels is validated by the sheer number of players on at a time.

Especially if we’re going to find a way to round Orsha into this discussion. Why do I say this? Orsha’s players basically all know each other because the relevancy of active players are circulated within a very small community.

Sure there are some more geared than others, but a perfect example of what I speak of would be Atramedes and his monopoly over the Venier market.

How much does Venier cost on Kle? If you’re not farming the recipe nor have the resources (silver or time) to farm Fossilized Lizard Amber yourself, and you exist on Orsha, then you probably know who Atramedes is.

Want to buy Venier? He will sell them to you for 20m.

Or maybe Running Shot gem? An otherwise pipe dream on Orsha. There’s a pair of Lolopanther Leather Gloves with Running Shot gem selling for 50M. Happy Merchant (Atramedes/Wulf) sell them for 35m a pop. The first one they sold was 170 Blessed Shards. The second one was 110 Blessed Shards. The third one was on the Market Board for nearly 15 minutes and taken at 40m. The fourth and fifth one were private buyers.

I wonder how much this costs on Kle…

There have been many times when you could load into the game and check the Market Board for Token’s only to find no one is selling them. Then someone shouts and one is posted 1.8-2M. I think that we are so quick to overlook the facts.

So long as this game continues to slowly decay then the cost of items will continue to increase because of their scarcity.

Remember how Battle Bracelet was nearly 14-16M before the Thanksgiving event?

Hyper inflation isn’t merely a player issue but the underlining fact that IMC though has made several patches for the betterment of the game, is locked outside of a contract and receives gear later and has not taken an even bolder step in bettering the present issues at hand to such a point that the game is dying.

If I have to sell tokens now I’d sell them at 2M. If players don’t like it, get to 290 and farm Saalus and 290 dungeon.

Make an AFK Necro.

There’s an entire plan to get upward 15m a week.

Or do what players like Happy Merchant do and farm it yourself to sell onto the market.

4 Likes
#77

too bad

we can all talk n suggest to make tos utopia for everyone

but imc didnt design the game to hold that many player
or even envision itos to be 10k pop game.

back when token still 1mil, we got 10k population n dungeon exceed server limit

unless the server could accomodate the surge of new player, i dont think its wise to disturb current ecosystem

ideally, token should cap at 1mil n pop should be atleast 10k average.

imc probably do something about bring in more new player, but current main concern is not token pricing.

fix fps/classes bug/balances/dc-vga error, we will automatically see new player coming inspite of 10mil token

#78

That’s why I bring it up every time too. Only ITOS had early acces packs. I need to search for the images posted of when TOS was #1 seller on Steam’s chart and it showed how many packs were bought exactly. If someone could find that it would be appreciated. I know it was about 50k, 30k, 25k between 1, 2, and 3 off memory.

So that technically means there was over 100,000 tokens potentially flooding the market at one point.

#79

Sorry, I didn’t even read your comment because I’m just assuming you’re still saying “IMC caters to vets” and “new players don’t deserve token benefits.” If you’re not going to say anything new, there isn’t any point in posting more. :smirk:

#80

Talk about selling cash item. in few minute ago I saw someone selling reset stats potion in the market = 3.5m… in server Vanera… I feel sorry for that guy I don’t take it anyway.lol