Imagine …if you born …and suddenly you already 40 years old
your idea for rank is like that right?
Right now we are born 40 full flechet archer/Mage/Swordsman. Read the thread before posting because we had this argument already. When you read this thread skip the posts “myself” made. They are trash and waste your time.
Or are you born with weapon in hand and the knowledge to use it ?
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The main reason i see in this design decision is to give each class rank reasonable options. There is the thing about everyone not knowing the ropes at the beginning of their lives, so there is a basic, starter class for the characters to undestand their roles.
However, this forces some building decisions throughout the game. Also, allowing R2 classes at R1 would make their C1 a lot weaker since they should be adapted to R1 levels. This would cut a lot of power from these classes, but would allow more end-game powerful builds, with more utility classes, and cutting some of this utility is what balances out each class build.
Anyway, all four starting classes have skills everyone should use at every time during the game, so it is a matter of knowing which skills to use at every level. To be honest, I could only argue about the need of the starting class for the Wizard tree, but it also have its own utility during end-game. With the balancing aspect in mind, I honestly hope this doesn’t change in the future 
Yep you don’t get what I’m trying to show.
oh well .nvm …lets just leave it with that then
Uh… yes? We were wearing weapons at the very start didn’t we? XD
We are Relavators, the 'Saviors' of the useless Goddesses. The ones(supposedly) keeping the Tree from burning itself.
Only hermits that secluded themselves from civilization for the last 200 years wouldn’t know how to wack things using their internet stick.
My only issue with the current class system is the shop/production classes(sans Appraisers since they can still be useful in an active combat/party).
They don’t really have much flexible build choices for them, or need any more time investment after reaching C3 and ending up as afk shops.
Well, The Elder Scrolls series titles like Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim allow you to thread the path of doing everything you want. Full plated magician that wields a bow? No problem.
Hand to hand fighter that wears no armor but still uses several magic spells/brews potions to shift the tides of the game to his favor? No problem.
That’s “practically” true freedom in an RPG, where the only limits lie within your humanity (if they didn’t exist, you’d be a god like in Black & White e.g.).
I believe TOS already has a solid system built up, with less restrictions than over 90% of all MMORPGs.
Your “Base Class” is your basic proficiency, it’s what you’re good at and from where you start developing yourself in this game. There are nearly no restrictions on what armor you can wear (some are restricted to Swordsman proficiency,though) and even weaponry allows you to take your pick between several weapon categories.
Then there’s the skill system. Did you notice that there are no skill requirements/level requirements to learn a certain skill? You can build your skillset as you want, with no points wasted into “pre-skills” to unlock your more potent skills later on or level requirements to unlock a certain skill.
Skills are just locked behind proficiency levels (i.e. Circles) to give people more advantage if they stick to only a few “Classes” rather than picking every Class at Circle 1 just to grab the best skill/skills. I think that’s well enough, considering that we get at least 11 Ranks [I still believe it will be 12 Ranks but we have to see] to build our character as we want.
People nowadays are just too greedy and want to have everything; The Rank system is not a flaw but a source of freedom. If you feel that your life as an Archer is a waste, why even play it? Just because you can’t pick Quarrel Shooter as a starting “Class” doesn’t make this game horrible.
It’s just that your “Character” can’t just headstart in the art of quickly firing a crossbow, throwing spikes & stones, he needs some foundation. Archer is the easiest foundation because you learn to aim & fire rapidly with bow&arrow; if you want to remove this restriction of a proficiency-prehistory, you have to remove the Class Tree system as a whole, allowing you to freely choose every Rank between all equally ranked Classes in the game and thus allowing you to have Cleric>Archer>Cleric>Swordsman>etc.-builds.
I can name you one: my Archer3>Hunter2>Falconer3-build. Since it doesn’t matter if I go Hunter first at Rank 3 and then Archer again at Rank 4, this is one example of a build that opts for Archer at Rank 4.
Archer is really amazing if you take it to Circle 2 and 3, so why talk about Archer being bad?
Your problem is just a temporary one as you don’t have enough Ranks to build what you want currently. It’s not that Archer is not necessary, it’s just that C1 performs badly enough that people don’t want it. You still get Oblique Shot, Swift Step and Full Draw, though.
However, it would be possible if they implemented a system that would nerf your skills starting/base values/effects down by ~30% [consistent throughout all Circles of the same Class] if you choose a Rank 2 Class for a starter Class, as this wouldn’t affect people who go through the normal choice-flow and not destroy the Class itself after just rebalancing everything.
E.g. your Steady Aim would only have 7% more damage at level 5, Barrage would be 100%x5 at level 5, etc. ; By toning down the starting skill values to Rank 1 niveau, one might allow this change, otherwise no.
Rank 2 Classes are stronger and have more advantages over Rank 1 Classes, they need to be adjusted to Rank 1 niveau by a special system if you want to take them at Rank 1.
Adeodatus wrote:
“I can name you one: my Archer3>Hunter2>Falconer3-build.”
I dont see archer C1 in your build…only Archer C3. we are talking here about c1 “ONLY” which means it stays at C1 in your build for ever.And archer C1 has nothing to take it for except Full draw debuff BUT then you have to keep in mind that you wasted a whole Rank for just 1 skill. Oblique and Swift aint good at max level 5 not even with the slow debuff. So again this thread is for the flaw about locked Rank 1 classes which “stay” at rank 1 in certain builds. That results in some build having 7/8 ranks while others have 8/8 which results in a bad overall balance…or everyone builds the same. And when everyone builds the same we dont need this kind of class system we have right now.
marrun wrote:“Yep you don’t get what I’m trying to show.”
You asked me a question and now that i showed you that you are wrong you try to evade by saying that you wanted to show me something ? Yeah…sure…if it makes you feel better i guess.
Fuwaro wrote:"Uh… yes? We were wearing weapons at the very start didn’t we? XD"
Thats what i wanted to tell marrun but he didnt believe me that i was born 40 years old with weapon in hand.
Adeodatus wrote:". If you feel that your life as an Archer is a waste, why even play it? Just because you can’t pick Quarrel Shooter as a starting “Class” doesn’t make this game horrible."
I am playing a 0815 Archer C2,QS C3, So yes there is one more of those in the game…yay. Just because i want the game to be better does not mean thats its horrible. Its the other way around ! Because i care about the game i speak up when something is not right.
But its nice to see that there are actually some people discussing my suggestion given the bad start this thread had with some forum trolls.
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It is not because the system is not that bad, that we can’t make suggestions to make it even better. This kind of argument “it’s worst in other MMORPGs” doesn’t make any sense. I do agree the ToS job system is interesting and good, but it’s not the best nor the perfect system we could imagine. But hey, shut the f… up and stay silent. Play the game or leave it if you “don’t like” it. 
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