Tree of Savior Forum

The Knockback Fest is Ridiculous

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#1

My character can barely stay on his feet during Saalus runs, it is extremely frustating.

I understand a certain amount of knockback is OK, is changes the approach to bosses, of course. But there is a lot more bosses can do to be interesting. The knockback chain is just too ridiculous to be even considered fun. It’s not even intersting anymore, it’s just cheat.

Glazing Golem, Harpeia, Wood Goblin, Minotaur, Achat, Reaverpede, Golem, Poata. They are all just knockback-machines that spam their attacks and keep you on the floor.

You have been asking feedback for after the patch, and this is it.

STOP THE KNOCKBACK FEST!

__
Meu personagem mal consegue ficar em pé nas Saalus, é extremamente frustrante.
Eu entendo que uma certa quantidade de knockback é OK, muda o jeito que enfrentamos os bosses, claro. Mas tem muita coisas que os bosses podem fazer pra serem interessantes. A cadeia de knockback está ridícula demais pra ser considerada divertida. Não é nem interessante, mais, é só apelona.

Glazing Golem, Harpeia, Wood Goblin, Minotaur, Achat, Reaverpede, Golem, Poata. São todos máquinas de knockback que ficam spammando os ataques pra te derrubar.

Vocês pediram feedbacks depois do patch, então aqui está.

PAREM O FESTIVAL DE KNOCKBACK!

17 Likes
#2

Poata is the worst. Why must every basic attack knock back? LOL

5 Likes
#3

Pls IMC, i almost can’t deal damage to Poata cuz he always knocks me :c

#4

I fell the same about those mobs, its Just stupid how easy they can keep u on the ground…

#5

Knocking back like that is just boring and frustrating, plain and simple. Poata and Glazing Golem just won’t stop until your face is deep down on the floor. And let’s not forget about Carapace at Crystal Mine and its forever spinning attack that won’t let you get up for nothing, comboing with Golem hitting you hard on the wall.Oh, I almost forgot about that horrid Sequoia bumping its belly from far away and still knocking you far back.
And please fix that awfull timing on casting skills… You finish the animation and if you get knocked back the skill won’t go off and its cooldown starts. Please, make the game more fun and interesting, you’re on the right path guys!

4 Likes
#6

T R I G G E R E D

2 Likes
#7

TOS needs to create a meaningful CC system, whether that be expanding resistances and CC stats, a timer system, or something else. Right now it’s very one dimensional and frustrating. Short term IMC should reduce CC frequency significantly and instead make it more severe, like a few second stun where you’re open to attack opposed to constant CC.

IMC has been reducing CC throughout the game, in normal mobs with this update, and will remove some when fighting WB’s and I assume other bosses as well in the future updates.

#8

I want to said just got “PAIN BARRIER”

but cc in this game was too much, too fast to react. some boss just spamming howling and knockback (even in TBL like cyro or psycho)

#9

If bosses had clear attack patterns with plenty of room to evade/avoid the attack, then knockbacks aren’t so bad–knockbacks become a fun mechanic that rewards quick reaction time and proper positioning. Some bosses in ToS follow this rule. Others do not.

Most do not.

If bosses do not present openings for attack and, instead, just spam knockbacks repeatedly, then it’s no longer fun gameplay with engaging counter-play…it’s just a nuisance. I call this phenomenon “artificial difficulty” because it’s not really difficult, per say; instead, it’s just tedious and annoying.

EDIT: One way to get around this is to make bosses susceptible to CC, thus allowing players to create their own opportunities to attack.

1 Like
#10

Isn’t this basically supposed to be what enforces a traditional MMO team style of combat?

Swordsman gets painbarrier to play frontline and be unaffected by those knockbacks. While everyone else is intended to not play frontline, or to utilise support features like Safety Zone.

At what point are we asking for features that create team play mechanics to be removed?

I think the issue here isn’t necessarily that the enemies do knockback, but that they should be more effectively dodgeable.

As knockdowns are annoying as opposed to difficult, what would the solution be? To have bosses that perform knockdowns also perform very powerful attacks after their knockdowns that put players at high risk of actual deaths?

Serious question. Since what I think would make the game more fun is in fact more threat, as opposed to making something even more boring than before. The game is at its most interesting when the potential of death is a real factor.

Part of this issue may also be the sheer size of the bosses. Bosses that are the size of the players might in fact provide more engaging/interesting gameplay by giving the players much more play-space. I know I enjoyed the human R8 bosses.

Alternatively, clear telegraphing of the hitboxes that bosses have for their attacks might make players happier. I know there’s an Oracle skill that performs this, but nobody uses it so nobody really knows what the hitboxes are that they need to avoid. On the other hand, when you look at a boss like Mineloader, it has clear telegraphing and players play vs his attacks perfectly as intended creating an engaging traditional style of fight.

3 Likes
#11

Only objection is that in ToS almost everybody is melee. Even wizards.

3 Likes
#12

I’ve put 5 points in Pain Barrier (Sw1>High1>Barb3>Doppel2) and 100 DEX points (for evasion) and I was knokedback 4 times IN SEQUENCE by Poata and it was so fast I couldn’t even use Pain Barrier (and SA ping isn’t helping us in the last days).
Basically: If I’m knokedback = #4 or #5. When I’m not = #1 or #2

#13

IMC should just add beat-em’-up’s invi frame(1.5sec) when knocked downed, and a hit count threshold to auto knockdown a player to avoid getting mobbed to death.

He just likes his Savior-to-wall ping-pong, the guy has NBA levels of dribbling mastery.

Imagining Impale/GiantSwing/Telekinesis
:joy:

4 Likes
#14

they also need to change boss attacks hitbosses or change the animation accordingly. Poata just swings his arms around and even if you are out of range of his animation, you get knocked down.

#15

I agree with you, just a few more comments.

From my experience as a full support yesterday, I can confirm that Satefy Zone, Stone Skin and Counterspell do not prevent you from being knocked back. [quote=“Awoooo, post:10, topic:360354”]
The game is at its most interesting when the potential of death is a real factor.
[/quote]

I agree. I don’t think knockback should be removed altogether, but we should have more means to resist it, and clear tells from the bosses that they are coming. If every attack from a boss knocks you back, then it is no good. If the boss chains knockback you, it’s no good. If they can spam knockback attacks, it’s no good.

Mineloader is a great example of telegraphing it’s attack. Minotaur is also very clear to read, making it not feel cheap.

#16

INDEED, IS PERFECTION!!!

No but they could be “susceptible” to CC, but with mitigated effects. Or all CC-type moves cause the boss to be stunned for X amount of time, rather than actually cause the CC used. And then there is a brief period of time in which the boss is not susceptible to CC!

What I’m describing here is something very similar to the GW2 breakbar, which is a great mechanic. Didn’t realize I was basically describing it until just now. xD

2 Likes
#17

and raise, Fly Poata, flyyyyyyy~

#18

I don’t think Dex gives evasion anymore?