Im an explorer so… Whats the point to explore if i can see every quest in the map?
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Seeing NPC in the fog makes it less enjoyable, really. It’s like playing a hidden object game that give you notice of where the hidden objects are.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here…
Say someone enjoys exploring, what makes their desire to explore any more important than your desire to accomplish?
I would think that it would come down to the design of the game. If you try to look at the MMO as a Skinner box it has been designed that you only receive rewards if you press the “exploration” button. If the reward for exploration was offered to everyone regardless of whether they pushed the “exploration” or “accomplishment” button then that reward would lose value as a reward for exploration.
In this case exclusion leads to “value”.
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Also going to play devil’s advocate on IMC’s behalf:
To avoid this “hand-holding” that’s become a norm for adventure games, MMO’s specifically. I don’t think there’s a better example of a more complete waste of time than some MMOs have than this “Auto-Run to Quest NPC”. The ENTIRETY of the game becomes Auto-Run -> hit skills to kill x monsters -> return to NPC for instant winz
Bear with me. I know that wasn’t your point @anarchyboy1547
Everyone has their own wants and desires when facing a new MMO and that is totally cool. Not everyone has the patience or capacity to read dozens of lines of text each quest, and that’s totally cool too. Some prefer straight up grinding, some prefer exploration. Alas, a game cannot cater to everyone (not easily anyway).
I believe what you’re saying @anarchyboy1547 is that you’d prefer a method to receive all the bonuses from the multitudes of quester NPCs without missing any, correct?
I DO think that there should be multiple ways users can approach the game and end-game. Unfortunately, EXP cards, low monster spawns, and this EXP curve have pretty much defined one linear path to level up. THAT, is shietty.
Now, I hate to be the guy that compares ToS to RO, but it does have it’s merits 
Players had the option of branching to multitudes of different types of maps so that they can level solo/with someone else in an area they can excel in. New monsters were always a challenge (before databases), and best of all: quests were completely optional. They had HUGE benefits though certain achievements in game was a prequisite, but you could also skip right by and continue “exploring” and challenging the game with new friends.
With ToS’s linear progression, I have a feeling the replay excitement is going to be close to null as WHO DA FK wants to go through the exact same path/quests/npcs/towns as before? And for 400+ levels? Unlikely. This is coming from a guy who made seven level 130+ characters in iCBT2 to “test” things. Alas, as much as I love what this game is, I personally think it’s a fundamentally flawed long-term system that will see user deterrence in the near future for this alone.
Note: sorry I went off topic.
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I guess I just don’t understand it the way you guys do. By saying u can see a quest marker in the fog it makes it less enjoyable… I just don’t understand that concept. If your exploring why are you looking at the fog in the first place??? Quest marker or not if your looking at the fog… And you can visibly tell it continues your basically cheating yourself the same way???
I guess I feel their are other ways around just removing the quest markers. For example… Give me exp for exploration similar to wow and guild wars. I don’t care to explore but if it offered benefits I would do it. In a game like tos. The first 2 feet of the zone is gonna look like the other 99% in most cases . I get it some zones vary… But most don’t especially outside zones. And giving me icoins for exploring doesn’t count.
If they varied in detail more or offered more motivation to explore them I would do it.
My largest complain exploring aside . Some npcs are sort of hidden.
One to mention for example around level 10ish there’s a supply officer behind a tree on the way to turn in a quest and unless you rotate your view he only becomes visible for a second as your screen pans down. Exploring aside sometimes your missing content right in front of your face .
Another quest in the same zone takes you to a farm area to kill some bugs… You can kill those bugs before ever getting to the farm and turn around and that’s it. Or if you continue there’s a npcs behind a tree you can’t really see who offeres 4 quest and a boss fight. Average players miss this content
That’s just like going in a thread where people say the game difficulty is too easy, and saying “If you want a challenge, why don’t you just un-equip all of your Armor?”
We like the way it is now because we’re forced to explore around the map for all the NPC’s and objects we can interact with if we want it to reach the 100% Quests Achievement for that map towards our Journal entry and the extra EXP Cards. It wouldn’t feel the same if everything is marked on every single map, and it seems silly to purposely ignore opening the map for a play-through of 300 levels, not to mention it prevents you from knowing if you completed 100% of the map or not which counts towards your Achievements/Journal.
Exploring a map in full and interacting with objects that trigger dialogue/events will give you Achievement points and eventually Silver (Money) once you reach certain thresholds in the different Journal categories. The Collection system which falls in the exploration category too, will award you Stat boosts.
Good. With this game, the ‘average player’ can learn how to pay close attention during game-play and not mindlessly rush through zones.
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I don’t think removing Arde would be the solution but either nerfing Arde or makeing those 2h stuffs better would be good.
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Removing jump is not an option for me either but they should work on that too for sure.
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We don’t need quest marks…but they should make quests skipable…because they are quite mandantory now.
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I want to use my equipment for a while and not throw it away every day. I rly liked how it was in iCBT.
I agree more with the rest.
I don’t know about you, but in shortage of quests, what really kept me playing RO was leveling up with guild members to get equipment to be competitive in WoE. So, in summary, WoE. However, I enjoy quests that are fun and involving. I hated the ‘collect x number of y’ quests.
I’ve read that quests are quite linear in ToS. If that’s so, I really hope they make a good GvG system.
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I agree with the OP about most things so far, except for the exploring part.
Here’s my answer to exploring.
We are playing a game, essentially even in our daily lives it’s a game of sorts, but in this virtual game we are putting ourselves in the position of the avatar. If I play a game like Ragnarok Online there is a very realistic sense to it, despite the fantasy element. For example, the people you talk to don’t just hand over information. You have to have talked to other people first in order to establish a quest line. You’re an adventurer, a rookie in a world of danger, where people need help and where you are on a quest for power.
Let’s take a modern game like Final Fantasy XIV. I played both Final Fantasy XI and XIV but I have much more time invested in XIV since I was accepted into the original beta and have played basically through each phase of its development. What I love about the game now is how open it is and how fun it can be. What I dislike is that they made it so easy, especially in the questing and exploring. There basically is no exploring…to be honest there is no real benefit to exploring non-quest or non-forage areas, and most places you will have to eventually visit for a quest or to retrieve an item anyways. Many quests, especially early ones, are like “Please find my missing item, I’ve located it here on this mini map for you!”
…what? If you know exactly where the quest is, and you know exactly where the item is, why don’t you just get it yourself?
This is the problem. In the real world, you have to chase your opportunities. Now in a virtual world where being an adventurer or explorer is a lucrative choice, filled with dangers and mysteries and you inevitably end up getting into some political stuff…you can’t tell me that making it so easy as quest markers is a valid choice for people who value their journey.
Perhaps some icons to indicate NPC’s in general would be okay, so that you could identify people at least in cities or outposts, but for quests that are just out there like “hey you wanna help me slay some stuff?” I don’t see a purpose or a function in labeling that except for people who don’t like to explore. But, if you don’t like to explore, why are you playing the role of an adventurer/explorer? At least in FFXIV you can become a crafter or gatherer and never have to pick up a weapon after your tutorial time is up!
So, with all that wall of post being said, it’s a great disservice to MMO gaming that the worlds have been simplified in this way. I remember back when you would have huge maps and might find a great place to train or harvest or just a beautiful, hidden map that most people were not aware of. I spent a lot of time on obscure maps in the beginning of RO just wandering around. Nothing made me happier than knowing I had to explore to find where to become a Monk and that I had to get through the forest in order to do it. Prontera forest was so much fun. Every class change quest was an adventure and even just trying to find it was a quest in itself, without markers or extra help. That made the game fun. Don’t even get me started on the Alchemist one. I felt so smart having to complete all those academic questions AND I felt like it was appropriate to the class too. They don’t do stuff like that anymore in games and it shows that anybody can do anything regardless of their natural skills and talents.
If you don’t like exploring, you shouldn’t be rewarded for that in a world where exploration is necessary. I suppose you could always refer to the internet or ask people to take you there, and that would be the solution to that problem.
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This I agree with a lot. Coming upon a quest at the higher levels was fun, but mostly I just spent time leveling up and collecting items and gear for WoE because it brought people together as a team activity. It wasn’t just the PvP aspect of it (though I care a lot about PvP and GvG) but it was the ownership of a castle and the pride of seeing your flag in the main city and the exciting battles that got you there.
So yeah, I’m really hoping for solid GvG too.