Tree of Savior Forum

The gap between 2h vs 1h+sub

Gameplay Feedback Item and Equipment
#12

The pvp in this game is horrendously unbalanced to start with, and that has to do with the classes themselves rather than what weapons they wield. It’s also true in some regards for pve as well (see - meta classes)
And if you ever bothered to check the damage formula, you should know that the physical/magic attack is extremely important. Stats don’t actually provide much in terms of attack.

Regarding the enchant jewel stats…you can have those damage decrease enchant jewels in any armor piece, if you so wish. 5 enchant jewel “slots” is enough to get all the important ones, anyway.
And you’re saying yourself that people still use two handed weapons classes…it’s just that they abuse autoswap to do so, since they can do it. If anything, they should fix autoswap so that you can’t have the advantages of both one handed+shield and two handed weapons.

Either way, you’re getting that additional socket, enchant jewel and awakening, and that thing seems to have ichors of sort. Thus even the stats will likely end up comparable.

So why should two-handed weapons + ornament end up having better physical attack than one handed+subweapon (not shield, of course; that should have inferior attack on lieu of giving better defense)? If they’re supposed to be comparable as well, then that ornament is totally overtuned by now. But fortunately is still in test, so they can tone it down before the release (and require substantial enhances and trascendences to do so - even the costs must be comparable, after all).

2 Likes
#13

theres alot classes here some good at PVE and some good at PVP, just pick what you like , ranking like that is not a thing to look at since you have to invest time and money on item and equipment, attributes…
there will be alot of changes like re:tos version 2 3 4 5 so just pick what you enjoy.

#14

Oh, the irony.
Bernice is the exact place where a fencer/matador should shine, given it always has the aggro (thus added damage for matadors) and can have the enemy in front all the time (thus efficacely using the epee garde art). It also has no benefit from shield - can’t block due to offensive rapide, no defense due to epee garde - so defensively speaking is in the same place as two handed weapon classes.
And despite that it’s only 7th place. Worse than some of these oh-so-terrible two handed weapon classes.
Granted, this doesn’t say much. We don’t know what equips those people are using. And some classes are definitely overtuned (scout/assassin/bullet marker/corsair isn’t widely used cause people like being pirates, it’s cause it is strong as hell). But posting this screen as some sort of proof is rather foolish. I could post Fedimian rankings and they would show some different results, but so what? Same as above, we don’t know anything else about those chars.

#15

Serve as proof that two handed don rule all in PvE

#16

image
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overall ranking is higher than your server. how’s this gonna proof anything

#17

berniceScreen
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Clearly this means that wizards rule everyone, even the OP scouts.

Nah, it still doesn’t mean anything.

#18

it mean maid rule us all lol :v

#19

Its enough to debunk the argument of “only two handed builds are PvE Meta”

#20

well i think u can try or use anything u like in PVE , theres not need to discuss about this anymore.
since this will going to no where D:

1 Like
#23

But since they seem to be so evenly matched (with more 2h builds being viable than 1h mind you), then why is 2h getting a huge ass attack buff while scout is getting almost nothing in comparison from their sword attribute? (assuming you can trans ornament)
Obviously pvp is a totally different case, but in PvE 2h weapons really didnt need this huge attack modifier. Clearly 2h weapons were already pretty strong, and didnt even need the extra socket or ichor to compete.
Besides that is 1 (one) build that is obviously way overtuned in SFR and modifiers to make up for the fact that scouts cant wield 2h weapons. That build will even require 3 weapons when the sword attribute hits. Yuck.

I obviously wasnt talking about PvP, getting the ornament for enchant, ichor and socket is all well and good, but it really didnt need attack. Besides classes like Lancer seem to be doing just fine in PvP?? (In Fedimian) Maybe you need to look at your class choice before you look at the weapon type.

KToS General Thread v4.0
#24

You have to understand that the Ornament came to balance the gap in PVP, that’s the sole reason it was implemented and all the complaints were on that direction.

By default 1H weapons are going to be weaker than 2H weapons, doesn’t matter if you use a sub-weapon or a lollipop or a 5kg Dumbbell or nothing.
Classes like Fencer cover that lower attack from Rapiers with lower cooldowns and more multi hits on their skill set.
Rodelero covers the lower attack from 1H sword with more damage modifiers, damage reduction and even a portion of your shield’s defense to your damage.

And last but not least, 3.2k Physical attack is not huge, ever since we got the Physical attack boost for weapons with rebuild, attack is less impactful than it used to be for both PvE and PvP.

#25

the extra patk wont likely bypass huge ass pdef by having one shield especially in pvp environment where damage is nerfed
beside with all the benefit shield can get the gap very close plus such buff like adding shield def into atk that makes true nature of 2h having bigger damage while sacrificing defense is questionable
also

take a look at this example
6 times old value isnt that another huge ass def?

all buff is welcome
nor that i complain of shield buff back then
mostly complain coming from pvp environment and in this case it comes from shield welder or 1h/sub wpn that suffer a lot of defeat from 2h weapon welder
not that i say one of em is you though

the grudge is real

#26

We’ll have to see how the new attack formula works. But regarding the old one, physical attack played a really large part, and modifiers aren’t enough to make up for a low attack.
This is cause physical attack is used in two different parts, one of which - the logarithmic part - acts as the major attenuating factor. Fencers are also supposed to make significantly higher damage from critical hits…the problem being that you’re still capped at 60% crit chance, whatever your crit rate is, and that physical attack is even more important when critical hits are involved (as it is used as 1.5 times your physical attack, plus the physical critical attack, in the non-logarithmic part of the formula). Multi-hits are there to give more chances to do critical attacks, so that it averages better, but apart from that they are no different from single, high SFR skills. As in, a skill with 1500 SFR and one with 500*3 hits SFR, as long as either all the hits crit or no hit crits, do exactly the same damage.
Even then, regarding fencers, the skill factors are relatively low. It’s just that with attaque composee we can do sustained damage, rather than burst one. But if the physical attack is comparatively low, that sustained damage ends up being terrible. With the old formula, at least. In that regard, a fencer requires a ton more silvers to get the same results, because until your attack gets high enough, you just cannot compete with two handed weapons, as despite the modifiers you’re more heavily weighted down due to how the formula works.
But either way, we have to see the new one to see if it warrants giving the ornament such values. With the old one, math wise, it would be an exaggerated buff. And it’s not an opinion, it’s just how the math works. We’ll see the new one, anyway. And how the tests will go in kTest.

#27

if you use fencer for damage talk of course its unsatisfying because fencer calibre is not damage but atk speed
image
enough talking about class bias though

#29

Ornaments will be enhance able and transcend able, so it’s gonna be +8,4k dmg at +16 T10 then u ad double ichor. Math says it’s gonna be retarded.

2 Likes
#30

That changes the entire situation, it would have been more balanced if it wasn’t allowed to be transcended and enhanced. =/

#31

It’s fine, they nerfed it already. +16 t10 Legend Skia Ornament = 3204 attack. Much more balanced, thankfully imc realized how op it would be and nerfed it.

Full list of ornaments: https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/items?type=Trinket&order=cdated&f=1

1 Like
#32

Why couldn’t they balance the numbers of 2h instead of adding items that essentially does the same thing.

They just introduce another equipment slot that requires all the rng of anvil, ichor, etc to use.

Just so bland and lazy.

1 Like
#33

They did. Buffed 2h swords and spears, giving a big increase to the maximum attack value. Unfortunately it’s not the case for 2h maces and staves, which will require huge investment on the ornament to actually just close the gap on the missing buff.

#34

I still dont understand bout this part what is this %?
Target Attack" Formula Change
※ Damage (%) = (( Target Attack Stat Value - Target Defense Stat Value ) / ( Defender Level * 30) * 100