Tree of Savior Forum

The game is DYING!

You’re completely missing the point. Sure, a class that is performing poorly or that can work only under specific conditions (such as using other classes and equipment) exist but the main issue is that these cases can’t be taken as a norm. There’s a huge difference of investment (and restrictions) a “lower tier” class needs compared to the meta and this is the complain focus, aside that we also have the fact these classes can be replaced by others and have an overall performance equal if not better.

Assuming you really can be as effective with a build that takes “low tier” classes that doesn’t change the fact you’ll have to convince people that you can and, most of time, they’ll just ask you to get something different to be sure it won’t fail and no one wastes time (as i assume is the current endgame player base mentality). It just takes one player to not contribute enough with a non-meta build to have everybody avoiding the idea.

It is great that ToS offers room to particular niche builds to strive on par with meta builds, but that doesn’t justify certain classes to be in their current state if they can only survive on these particular conditions. Of course this could be addressed if the game offered more strategies to combat that weren’t “hit the enemy as hard as you can” and allowed you to swipe all enemies on screen with an average weapon.

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who is this BM main btw? just wanna know

monkaHmm

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I definitely see where you are going with this and this was certainly true before our SFR/arts update. However, ToS has many classes, like alot, so I understand that some things will be more useful than others in different types of content. There are still some classes that do not have much use but I definitely do think it has slightly improved. Classes are now split better into categories such as Bossing, CM, and PvP builds. The game encourages character creation, so I do not personally find this to be much of a problem, other than the problem of poor balancing in certain situations.

For example, Scout now has a lot more options and many of the classes are viable. The only one that seems still pretty bad is Shinobi and we know why. IMC tried to move it away from Swordsman because it fit more in the Scout niche and then also tried adding 2 circles to the class without really giving it enough damage to do anything. There just simply not enough skills and the cooldowns are too long.

However, you can pick Corsair and 2 other classes and the build will be useful in some type of content that exists now. There are a few other ‘Shinobi’ classes in the other base class trees but at least there was improvement on this front with this patch. There is a lot to choose from and I like the variety but there is still a long way to go.

I agreed much more on the other points you mentioned as the glaring issues with the game.

Definitely +1 on these comments.

GENGEN

feelsamazingman

TOS Die ? NO NO NO :tired:

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this is my first time seeing android abbreviation as AOS.

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OMG NO.

/20charrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Didn’t you know the game is on life support?

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Re-Returning player here.

And Casual binger on top of it. (meaning that I dont play much, except sometimes I can play looong sessions).

What I didnt like on the first run was the grind. Grind for everything to progress. I hate grind, crafting, collecting things that don’t dropp. And It was agains what was for me the fun part of the game : you craft your own gameplay loop through class selection. But for that, you needed to be at least mid level, and worst needed to have the corresponding gear/… or it wouldnt work.

I left after trying for 2 weeks to get a lacluster gear that would allow me somehow to barely do things.

Then I returned around Re: Build, loved the updates, but left again for unrelated reasons.

Then, I’m returning since one week. Now, it’s quite the opposite, I progress so fast… I don’t have time to try things… Gear is near non relevent until it suddenly is. Dungeon are… well, I joined my first dungeon a bit afraid that I wouldnt be able to follow and be of use… and suddenly people dispatched themselves in different rooms and less than 5 min later the boss was dead.

Difficulty is gone. I crafted my dream build (warlock featherfoot + shadowmancer for the RP aspect) and can’t seem to be able to play my full rotation before everything is dead. Only CM are a challenge… But more because I’m overwhelm with monster, my DPS not being able to follow rather than a flaw in my build… (and It could be because i’m not equiped with state of the art stuff, mostly blue/purple). I could limit myself to 3 spells it would be the same. As someone pointed out, the only thing that matter is AOE… Which mean you can craft your gameplay loop, but only one matter : big insta overkill aoe. And that part is sad.

What they should do : Lower the stat ratio of gear/damage. More mini boss were Aoe aren’t usefull (or at least less than mono target ones). To give you an idea : Mastema should be a AOE debuff spell, it’s my overkill machine. It does more damage than any single target spell i’ve got, each time I launch it the debuff are useless (even on boss, since they lost half theyr HP which by itself would be a rewarding enough spell). The only limitation is SP. Insta launched, manageable cooldown, etc…

There are 2 other spell more interesting IMO : Demon scratch : fully skilled, it does less damage (no overkill) AND as a casting time that let me be vulnerable for a few seconds.
Evil sacrifice : need a set up, which mean specific gameplay loop. But a bit undewhelming damage wise (most certainly because the 3 skill needed to make it work properly are lvl 1, and so need ALL the class point to make it work).
I ended up just putting one point in Mastema, lowering it’s damage and center it around debuff, it suboptimal gameplay wise, but lot more fun (and it still insta kill most of the target). I kept pole of agony because potential ARTS synergy with evil sacrifice. And demon scratch, because it’s cool. Since, i’ve got way more fun!
BUT, consequently, I can’t fully upgrade invocation, dark theurge, and ghastly trail, which need all 45 skill point to be ok, and are still undewhelming if you do so… and sadly, it’s all the fun of this class…

How could you improve the class?

Move skill around : there is 2 possible root
Level 1 : Dark theurge, evil sacrifice, Mastema (wich mean either you have to invest a lot to do the AOE damage, or you keep it low with attribute for the multiple debuff. Sp consumption should be connected to the level of the skill), demon scratch
Level 2, Ghastly trail, pole of agony,
Level 3, Invocation
So that you have 2 main build :

  • AOE dps (30 mastema & demon scratch, 10 pole of agony, 4 invoc+1 evil sacrifice),
  • spirit invocation as DPS and debuff (17-20 Dark theurge, evil sacrifice, mastema(1-3point), 20 ghastly trail&pole of agony, 5 invocation)

and the possibility to mix is open

OR, Lower Mastema damage and point investment, so that the AOE is a debuff not a damage one & Add debuff to it (like, blind, curse improving dark damage rather than only holy damage and work with other curse build). with a tree like this :
Level 1 : Dark theurge, evil sacrifice, pole of agony + 1 new skill
Level 2, Ghastly trail, Invocation, Mastema (as a 1 point skill, low dps but lot of attribute& debuff)
Level 3, Demon scratch

here again 2 main gameplay also AOE dps or invoc dps, bif with strong debuff and synergy.

The same can be done with a lot of class. BUT, it need :

Better IA, more difficulty not through more monster (or neither hp pool monster) but with more tough miniboss monster wich are more fast do more direct damage and that need more direct targeted damage. And make AOE that are not equivalent to single target damage spell with just the cost of more SP (could be more casting time, less damage, more debuff, need of set up,…).

That way, more gameplay approach can be build (depending on set up, debuff, buff, etc) rather than SP popo + strong overkill aoe.

Also, why i love this game isn’t for the end game. But the new possibility to easily change your class set up. Being to much gear dependent can drag that, being a little gear dependent would mean more people grinding end gear to try new builds.

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