Tree of Savior Forum

The Desu Demise (Klaipeda's Guild Unity Chat)

General Discussion
#32

Considering the group that went to 15th floor on ET has a healer with only druid1 (i.e. cannot transform into spectra to abuse bug), I’d say your “everyone else does it” defense is bullshit. Some other people may also abuse the bug, yes, but certainly not all top players do, as you so imply.

It makes me sad that you’re invaliding their success by indirectly painting them under the same brush as your bug-abusing ass :frowning:

P.S. You’re aware that you’re literally >the< reason there is any tangible proof of bug abuse within your guild, right? Everything else is hearsay but the video of you. I can understand anyone else in your guild complaining about defamation, but you? You’re guilty as charged.

2 Likes
#33

I think he implies that the game has drowned in cheaters to an extent that its considered norm. Its not even about spectra, who can now say with certainty that they didn’t level their attributes with money gained through months of exlpoiting?

#34

I can say that. They didn’t.

#35

Still going with your “i think things are all right and the gms can do this if they really buckle down and put on their thinking caps and do their best” malarky?

I’ve asked you over and over in other threads, in an environment where the GMs either:

  • Lack the manpower to use function server log and cheat detection tools effectively, or

  • Lack these tools entirely and must rely almost entirely on player-made screenshots and videos to detect cheating and exploits

One of the above things (or both of them) have to be true for ToS to be in the state it is in. This is self-evident and it is not to be contested or debated. The GMs cannot do the things you want them to do for one of the above reasons. Accept that moving forward or stop trying to talk with me.

How do you resolve the situation, given this dire set of complications? There are three options:

  • Massive ban waves that can and will inflict collateral damage but generally instill enough terror in the player base to make further cheating unattractive

  • Wipe the server

  • Formally allow cheating.

If you have an option #4, that’s about the only thing you’re allowed to say to me. I don’t want to hear any more non-specific, non-solution horse ■■■■ from you that revolves around things magically getting better because reasons. If you can’t provide option #4, you’re not smart enough to communicate with me, and I’m going to copy paste this exact post at you every time you try.

#36

you are wasting your time,the exploiters already won
imc rewards them on a regular basis

http://steamcharts.com/app/372000

look at that beautiful average still creeping down
let them be the kings of the dead game

either the server keeps bleeding players
you cut off its leg and amputate (ban wave) removing God knows how many players
or you shoot it (wipe)
or you stab it again (join the exploiters)

pick your poison

1 Like
#37

Yeah, Druid bug is brand new.

In here. Official.

On ktos.

This is all brand new, right? You’re using me as a target to flame/complain about our guild. Did I claim Saintone’s group is abusing the bug? No, so your argument looks incredibly stupid. There’s no sense posting on here anymore. It’s all Jace/Lolipan/7th Crusade fanboys. The argument is spectra(which is your only legitimate complaint that’s widely abused among the game as a whole until the ktos patch fixing it), duping, and channel crashing. Duping does not exist, and IMC will handle channel crashers, and most likely publicly announce their names due to all of your fanboy hatred.

EDIT: The title of your post says it all. Tree of Highschool.

#38

They’re going to go after everyone who benefited from channel crashing at the very least. Not just the individuals who themselves crashed the channels. A lot of people are going to burn.

They don’t have the manpower to sift through every case one by one. So their only option is to burn out entire groups of people if they want to resolve this.

#39

no you mean they are going to pretend to go after everyone who benefited

just like they do with the bot bans, leaving the most obvious ones for months

#40

I don’t know who’s more delusional. Desu thinking they can argue their way out suspicion, or people who think IMC will handle bans to the people involved. We’re talking about the same game and company that allows momohime to farm for over 4 months unmolested.

All of this will be patched(hopefully), and they’ll pretend the exploits never happened.

#41

That’s true. They might basically do nothing and then the game dies off really, really fast when players notice nothing happened and that endgame will be broken forever thanks to all the crap people got via exploits.

The guilds involved should be ■■■■■■■ terrified of either of these scenarios. Everything is going down.

#42

No, all i’m saying is that people who are innocent should not get punished just because their guild mates are doing something wrong.

  1. Who’s the smarter and more civilized one : The one saying “everyone should get punished, ■■■■ the innocents who get caught in the crossfire, collateral damage is acceptable. If a single person does something wrong, ban everyone.” or the one saying “only the guilty should get banned.”?

  2. I’m allowed to say anything i want to you as long as it’s not against the forum rules or against the law.

  3. I never claimed that magic is needed to improve the situation

Correction : These are the three options you can see.

However, as we’ve already determined in point 1) you’re not a very smart nor civilized thinker (if you were smart or civilized in thinking you wouldn’t even have dared suggesting the “fck everyone, even the innocents”-bans), thus chances are high you missed solutions that are less harming to the innocent players.

It seems you only see and care about the most direct and most “barbaric” solutions (ban everyone/wipe the server/allow cheating) that don’t care about innocents being harmed in the process (hence being barbaric). However, quite often the direct solutions are not the best ones.

That being said : IF we continue this talk we should do this in the other topic, :slight_smile:

#43

Answer the question or get out of my face. In an environment where the GMs either:

  • Lack the manpower to use function server log and cheat detection tools effectively, or

  • Lack these tools entirely and must rely almost entirely on player-made screenshots and videos to detect cheating and exploits

One of the above things (or both of them) have to be true for ToS to be in the state it is in. This is self-evident and it is not to be contested or debated. The GMs cannot do the things you want them to do for one of the above reasons. Accept that moving forward or stop trying to talk with me.

How do you resolve the situation, given this dire set of complications? There are three options:

  • Massive ban waves that can and will inflict collateral damage but generally instill enough terror in the player base to make further cheating unattractive

  • Wipe the server

  • Formally allow cheating.

If you have an option #4, that’s about the only thing you’re allowed to say to me. I don’t want to hear any more non-specific, non-solution horse ■■■■ from you that revolves around things magically getting better because reasons. If you can’t provide option #4, you’re not smart enough to communicate with me, and I’m going to copy paste this exact post at you every time you try.

If you cannot debate me, I will not talk with you anymore. I don’t think you’re good enough or intelligent enough to discuss this matter, or any matter, with me, because I’ve got you in a corner and you can do nothing. You have no solution, and nothing to offer.

#44

No, these things do not neccessarily have to be true to have TOS in the state it is currently in. Again there are many possibilities that you missed.

How is it self-evident when there are many other possibilities you haven’t even looked at? You seemingly only go for the most-direct assumptions without even thinking for second that there might be other reasons that are not immediately obvious.

Again, i have every right to say to you whatever i want as long as it is not against the rules/the law.

But since you won’t stop crying, my solution #4:
step 1: Determine whos guilty by digging through logs.
step 1.1 : If the guilty can not be determined via logs due to lack of tools, develop the tools. Simple.
step 1.1.1 : If not enough manpower to develop the tools, (temporarily) hire more people to develop the tools. Again, simple.
steb 1.1.2 : If hiring other people is not acceptable, stop game updates for a few weeks, recognize that anti-cheat measures are more important to keep the game alive than updates for a short time and focus on developing the tools to analyze logs easier (shouldn’t take longer than 1~2 weeks). After that is done, continue developing the game.
step 2 : Use the tools to only ban the guilty.

There, done. Was that so hard to come up with?

1 Like
#45

Alright! Desu drama! I was waiting for this

I have a question for you guys - How do you put up with being in a guild where your fellow guildmates will openly KS one another? This happened quite a few times to me during maven peak hours. I’d have people from Desu in my party and then other Desu members would start another party and just come and destroy the place.

If anyone did that in any guild I was in, I would IMMEDIATELY leave or get the people kicked. But I guess the guild is so good that nobody really cares if they are treated like this

(Of course this didn’t happen every time though. Once we actually without communication effectively split the map and idk about them but we wound up getting almost 1.5x the exp we were getting when we were the only people in the map)

1 Like
#46

Uh yes you did:

All the members of his group are in “top guilds”, aren’t they? According to YOU, that means they use spectra. But as I said before, that is literally impossible with Saintone’s build.

And I’m seriously confused here. Title of my post? What post? The person you quoted isn’t even me. Did you get the wrong person or something?? I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about, lol.

The only thing I can vaguely interpret from your incoherence is this: If you’re trying to say that the bug is nothing new… ok. But so what? You’re the one caught abusing it here. Stop deflecting. Your only argument against this is “every other top guild does it too”, but clearly that isn’t true (see: Saintone’s group). What evidence do you have to even begin to prove this? If other people are abusing the bug, great, BAN THEM TOO. But these “other people” strawmen are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand here - i .e. you are a bug abuser and deserve to be banned.

If you actually read my reply correctly, you’ll see that I said nothing about your guild and the alleged duping or channel crashing. There’s no proof of it, so I didn’t comment on it. So yes, my only legitimate complaint is your spectra bug abuse - I.E. THE ONLY THING I COMMENTED ON IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Clearly you’re lumping me together with all the people your guild has beef with because you keep thinking I said things I never did. But sorry - I’m not in a top guild, nor do I know any of the people you listed. I literally just read this thread and commented because you seem like a self-righteous ■■■■ who’s full of ■■■■.

4 Likes
#47

I like step 1.1.2. We already covered the others you suggested at length, and how IMC would have taken those measures by now if they could. Thank you.

Given that 1.1.2 is pretty clear the only option IMC is in a position to make use of, how do you feel about all of the recent, content-related news that is obviously eating up their development hours?

#48

I just recently joined Desu and pretty much was unaware of the amount of hate they had. I’ve world boss’d a bit with them, ET and some other pve content and havent seen any form of exploiting. Maybe its a misunderstanding, maybe its a couple of players people dont like. As far as bugs go, you cant dupe, theres no possible way right now despite of what you heard. Not going to defend/attack anyone since I really dont know.

What I do know is, even though its like 7v1 guild wise, toxic players screaming toxic stuff when I finally do die or 20 people camping an entrance I am having the time of my life and haven’t had this much fun since the game released.

Me and a couple players have been a one PT wrecking crew and haven’t had much resistance until we get severely outnumbered.

Smiling from ear to ear right now.

2 Likes
#49

As far as I know, there is no hard evidence yet of Desu (in general) exploiting duping/channel crashing bugs in this post (video/photos please).

However, the druid (Nulight) in Desu should be banned as an example since there is evidence of him openly abusing it.

** Also poor Saintone and especially AzuraWilon being brought up when they aren’t really related to it at all.

#50

No, you and Undertale are alright.

Again, I am doing this without malice. At least, I can say that personally, and be able to sleep at night. Not that I sleep but hat’s not the point.

Nulight, Kirito, and Mesmerized (Kirito running two accounts). They get IMC to pass judgement at or at the very least publicly explain themselves on why they acted that way, then I am satisfied.

I might just be weird.

#54

First of all : please keep in mind that i didn’t mean that “you’re not intelligent/civilized/etc” personally, it’s just heat of the moment and i don’t really mean it, personally i’ve nothing against you. :slight_smile: We probably just have different opinions on how to resolve things.

I wish they’d focus on anti-cheat methods before any more development, or at least do something after they finish up the last two R8 class updates. I hope after the merge with the KTOS development branch is done IMC has a bit more free ressources/manpower (since NA/EU and KR TOS won’t have to be developed individually anymore) to do something against exploits and cheaters.