Tree of Savior Forum

Thaumaturge C3 Skills Observation: it requires buffs... to be honest

My bad then, if its mistake. Since the TOS mechanics calculate that way.

Thauma3 here, i think swell right arm is one of the best skill in the whole class. When you equip a shield you gain 271 p def and m def. at first it doesn’t sound much, but in praxis without the buff enemys that hit me for 1500 dmg with the buff the whole dmg is reduced to 1-100 dmg. Now think the whole group gets such a damage reduction and maybe got aperation 15 in team which increases the defenses again by 48%. you whole party would get no damage at all. but yeah people prefere to equip mana mana for extra 300 dmg instead of invincebility.

I don’t understand how you can pass from 1500 to 1 damage with only swell right arm because unless you get crit or something or vs a Hard hitting mob (Big hp pool monster) and then compare to a normal mob/hit…
Armor work as a flat reduction

In simple Damage taken = Damage - Armor (Their modifier and other thing but that the simplest equation)
Let say the mob hit for 500 you got 250 armor, the mob hit you for 250

Unless you mean the mob hit you for 1500 in mutiple fast hit then yeah 271 armor will reduce each hit by 271.

that sounds like it would make sense, like the mobs that shoot repeating arrows

This isn’t true for Magic Defense, and it’s, probably, not true for Phys Defense.

(((((Skill Attack + Effective Attack) + (random(0% … 100%) * Magic Amplification)) * (100% + T0)) -
(Effective Defense * (100% + Level Penalty)) + Elemental Resistance)) * (100% + (0 or 50% if crit)) + (0 or Critical Attack) + Extra Elemental Attack + Enemy Specific Damage) * (100% + T1) * (100% + T2) * (100% + T3) * (100% + Enhance) + Bonus Damage

That is the complete damage forumla (Monster and player work the exact same way)

Let say the monster use a normal attack no skill at all
He do around 500 damage (physical)
And you got 250 defense (Physical)
For this there no modifier from strike/missil/pierce/plate mastery etc…

(((((Skill Attack = 0 + Effective Attack = 500 ) + (random(0% … 100%) * Magic Amplification = 0)) * (100% + T0 = 0(No modifier))) - ((Effective Defense = 500 * (100% + Level Penalty = No Level Penality)) + Elemental Resistance = (Physical damage only))) * ((100% + (0 or 50% if crit)) + (0 or Critical Attack) We don’t use critical hit in this exemple) + Extra Elemental Attack + Enemy Specific Damage(Unless the mob got a Savior bonus damage we don’t count it)) * ((100% + T1) * (100% + T2) * (100% + T3)) Those 3 are modifier mostly for player damage but mob can do different type of damage but we just taking a Flat exemple) * (100% + Enhance = Does mob have enchance attribut ? I dont think) + Bonus Damage = 0

Let reduce it to whatever we need no modifier just the FLAT damage and how armor work vs the damage.

(( Effective Attack = 500 ) - (Effective Defense= 250))
Overall that the formula whitout any modifier, From skill or attribut or mastery or skill base damage and whitout any magic damage formula either.

Let try with armor modifier on a basic attack. With Crit 50% I think from monster ? Not sure but let see how it modifier the value on the damage taken.

((0 + 500) - (250)) * (100% + 50% Critique ) * (100% + 50% Armor modifier)
250 * 150%*150% = 565 damage taken
Whitout the 250 armor.
500 * 150%*150% = 1125 damage taken
Total 1125 - 565 = 560 Damage reduce with 250 Armor

Sadly, that formula does not work the same way. I know, because I take over 200+ extra magic damage when I remove my 100 M-def bracelet. -_- The same goes for it I remove my pants, I take about double the def in extra damage.

It is certainly not Flat. At least, not until a specific threshold.

Monsters eventually get modifiers on some of there crap or utilize skills with modifiers (Spiral arrow)

I amtalking default attacks. Not skills.

Though, technically, all monster attacks are “Skills”. Which is why they can’t do anything under SIlence.

I did one with crit and armor modifier include.
Monster don’t hit for the same amount all the time ( One hit me between 250 and 400+)
And yeah i tested it for the third time now and it still the same ( 150 armor from swell arm still give me 150 damage reduc when there no modifier involve)
That also the reason people speak about how useless the armor is because it a flat reduction and not a % reduc (That also make it seriously strong if somehow you can reach the point they do almost nothing)
Serisouly you can’t find a better formula than that.

I am talking max and min going up. It’s very noticeable after you gauge the enemies attack.

I can do 5k magic missiles as wiz 3 thauma 3

I think swell head is good. INT + 145 to a sorcerer is a good boost to the summon damage. But well, I don’t know how much silver has to be thrown to achieve this. Probably too steep.

Wiz3 Thaum3 Warlock Here, I agree everything you said.

The Swell Right Hand must be applied to any offhand as well, I think it should be that way but it is outdated and nobody care (pistol/cannon and more to come?)

Swell Brain is good, but it is not definitive for a C3 class, the INT+145 is meh and even worse than both swell hand honestly. I think +50% matk from quickcast should be here instead. Or, we lack of meta that can defend magic damage effectively, Thaumaturge should be a big part here like reduce magic damage for xx% or improve magic defense for 100%

I probably think Reversi is actually the best skill, but it sometime quite OP like during World Boss you are taken all others’ magic circle. But I feel the current world boss/monsters are lacking of Ground Magic so I didn’t feel so useful, if world boss summon ground magic then peoples would not be as comfortable as it is now and Thaum can be shine to turn the boss’ magic back to against themselves.


do group members at least appreciate all the thaum buffs?

Below level 200 yes, the damage increased is significant.
Above 200 the increase is not really significant.

But at least if there is a Druid C2 in the party (with dagger), the damage increased is good enough for them to act like Elementalist C3 and you doesn’t need them in party. I’ve achieved 12m/h in Storage with a 2 tanker + 1 archer + 1 diev/druid before.

Sometime if there is no krivis, you need to discuss with the cleric what buff to use only, it could be easily overloaded.

Thaum Buff are quite Good with class that do alot of Tick like pyromancer
I mean you can easily give around 500 bonus damage to the whole team and it also stack with any modifier (Element / enchant attribute / etc).

I could say, Thaum buff are quite understimated… But there also bad matching with people who don’t really profit of it or people spaming every single team buff (Mostly mage using Shield or Archer with team swift step) Overithing the priest and my own buff.

-It work really well with pyromancer (Btw also quite understimate… Pyro damage might be a bit slower than the meta but overtime they do alot, don’t understimate them because it a C2 class even more with the buff incoming)
-Elementalist Aren’t bad either it give a good amount of damage to FC but anyway it already doing to job quite well whit just QC.
-Don’t understimate On archer or Swordie, Those 500 can become alot more on thing like running shot or any modifier that would affect thier damage like necro decay aura.

i can understand what you mean…

but lets be honest at lvl200+ parties start rejecting you due to the unnoticable effects you bring…

while this buff is strong:

The fact that it doesnt give any benefit to archer class(Who uses guns)/ 2handed doppels

Is what makes this a flawed buff…

what 500? archers mostly uses guns that doesnt work…
only adding 305 buff when other classes skills like…

Pass literally doubles that damage way better than the buff itself

Swordies who uses shield get defences

Swordies that uses 2H gets nothing in return…

About mage’s: I placed there the synergy with the class… (Its literally the only few class that benefit it along with cleric)

Thanks some people doesn’t understand how
(Out-classed we are later in the game)

lvl200 below we are loved

lvl200 above we are despised since too many thaum using heal tiles like chugging it away from tanks… (Pure int transpose build)

Making them despise us in parties…

As well as not bringing anything to the table like how cyro 3/chrono 3 brings so much support we are almost non-existent beings…