Terrible pacing and a boring world/end-game

[Joejohjho]

tldr: the 400+ levels to the very start of “end-game” wasn’t fun. I never paid attention to the main story because besides silver, anything rewarding is behind endgame content, the translation wasn’t good at times, there were too many quests, and the quests were boring and/or annoying.

Background Info
Played around mid February to 4/4/21, reached level 453 with a pyro/ele/tao and leveled a SR/Thau/Ench. Stopped at getting to the requirements for CM3. Got bored of the grind. Wanted fun PvE content with a cool world. I have no interest in PvP and GvG content.

The game’s problems are probably shared with other MMOs and I don’t think the problems are solved well here. I’ve just played a few other MMOs.

Poor Pacing
The game seems set up so that you should just complete the main quest as soon as possible so you can experience the real game. Monsters and quests probably don’t have a chance to give you something valuable during the grind to end-game other than specific skill gems maybe. With end-game content also limited in various ways, there are just a couple ways to progress casually (such as those quests that give attribute points) which becomes boring quickly.

A bland world
The world part in this game is severely lacking. Due to anti-botting changes, field monsters are no longer rewarding and are no longer unique (if they ever felt unique) Rewarding content all comes from dungeons that are instanced, such as the leveling instance dungeon, Raids, Challenge Mode, etc. Even sub-quests are locked until you have a level 400 character. There is some incentive to complete maps but they’re not that rewarding. As rewarding content was focused at just the endgame, there was less reason to pay attention your first 400 levels such as what you were fighting, where, and why.

Poor Translation
Perhaps I skip through the dialogue in most games nowadays. From what I’ve paid attention to, the translation hasn’t been the best. Some people can read through that, it hurts the story and characters for me however.

Possible Solutions
I’d say make field monsters feel unique somehow. Presumably can’t have valuable drops, but perhaps team locked useful drops/cosmetics/quests? Something so fields and monsters feel special again.

Make quests less annoying, the worse were the quests where you had to interact with 10+ objects with 3+ second cooldowns.

It feels too late for this game to develop content other than PvE and PvP content. Gathering, crafting, world economy, minigames, those help prevent a game from getting stale but I feel like TOS isn’t able to do any of those.

Please make sure the translations at important story sections are improved as that’s when I tried to pay attention.

And that’s all I can think about at the moment. See you later maybe.

[Kisaragi]

@Joejohjho

The game seems set up so that you should just complete the main quest as soon as possible so you can experience the real game

The game is actually set up in a way that exploration and questing are the main attractions, and endgame content is mostly just wasting your time since it goes nowhere other than building your equipment.
The problem is that TOS made a big shift from exploration, open world gameplay to a complete shut-in instanced dungeon race to best possible equipment so you can see bloated numbers with meta builds on weekly boss ranking and joint strike raid.

That is why the pacing of this game feels so out of place. It was way better when you made only a few levels per day in 2016, you went to 1-2 new maps, did some quests there, whacked some monsters that were actually dangerous, collected some collection items and then called it a day.
It was fun because the game was so huge and although the pacing was slow, the progression was there. Useful items dropped from the fields, bosses were on the maps and in dungeons that made short work of you if you were too weak, you could craft really good equipment or get them from gimmicks on certain maps, it was really fun.

Now it’s all just empty, you’re racing to the last map to finish the main quest for free equipment and then you can’t do half the content of the game, and the parts you can do do not result in progress.

That is actually why the game feels so bad now. If they were to revert a lot of things to how it had been before, the game would actually be fun again. Right now it’s RNG-rerunning content for the Arch Stones and other materials (vaivoras/goddess/demon armor related fragments, nucle/sierra/mystic tome pages to upgrade the Ark) that upgrade your equipment.
The leveling from 450 to 460 actually felt more like a punishment than having any progress at all.

[rivayir]

@Kisaragi

The problem is that TOS made a big shift from exploration, open world gameplay to a complete shut-in instanced dungeon race to best possible equipment

The same thing happened with class builds. It went from a decently sized number of unique builds that are viable (Class Circles) to everyone playing the exact same builds, because the skillsets of classes became too similar and balance is done by using the calculator, so everyone is even number-wise. VVR weapons just add to the issue, if balance is done this way.

[Casey]

@Kisaragi

That is why the pacing of this game feels so out of place. It was way better when you made only a few levels per day in 2016, you went to 1-2 new maps, did some quests there, whacked some monsters that were actually dangerous, collected some collection items and then called it a day.
It was fun because the game was so huge and although the pacing was slow, the progression was there. Useful items dropped from the fields, bosses were on the maps and in dungeons that made short work of you if you were too weak, you could craft really good equipment or get them from gimmicks on certain maps, it was really fun.

That’s what I miss, I loved the gimmicks and the dangerous monster bashing to level to the next step of quests.

I also miss partying up to level up on maps

My experience so far recently: After receiving my ‘EP 12’ gear and ichoring/set stating them from about 6 months hiatus, I started on the path of non-event gear to get that extra oumph… Oh god just to get one piece of gear to be just slightly better is just a grind and a half with so much RNG it’s frustrating…

Just 200 more blessed shards and 13 more Pamoka Solutions after approx’ 30 Magnifiers, 20+ Golden Ichoring Kits, 24 Anvils, 3x lv8 Blue Gems, 40 mil on a Glacial weapon… I’ll have something ‘slightly’ better than the event weapon. And I’m even using the current event 8 Enhance Scroll and the event Vaivora Ichor…

I wish I just stuck with the event gear, dabbling in making your own is just one long train of annoyances.

If I didn’t max out attributes on my main using an event from maybe 1 year ago, I think I’d of just stopped playing to be honest - as it stands it’s rinse and repeat Challenge Modes buying all of the CM Vouchers in Mercenary and all of the other dungeons each week/day.

[Joejohjho]

@Kisaragi

Now it’s all just empty, you’re racing to the last map to finish the main quest for free equipment and then you can’t do half the content of the game, and the parts you can do do not result in progress.

I didn’t mention this, I stopped in trying to progress after the “free” upgrades to the Savinose Dysnai set you get from EP12 or events. It did feel weird that I could only do some of the end-game content but I assumed that was normal with new content needing equipment that needed some decent investment in (at least optimally).

I’m thinking that other MMOs also have endgames where players focus on just a couple endgame sets and the grind on upgrading those. Content that reward things other that those sets are no longer played as much. They probably want to push players to play only specific content so that the developers can just focus their efforts there and not elsewhere. Done poorly, such as in this game, it just murders the world.

[Shahila]

I returned to this game after 2 years of hiatus. Last time when I played it was soo much easier to catch up and to do new content (Asio, Wastrel, Ignas). I just farmed new primus gear in the field. Made Solmiki and got my gear set there. Updated it and I was able to do current content. I was even able to join Velco Parties back then.

Now - I have the Savinrose Event Equip. Boruta Stage 1, Quest Ark Stage 2, nearly completely maxed Attributes and 3x Centaurus, Nuale, Marnox, Netherbone Cards level 10 and a Asio Card Level 3. But the problem is - I can’t update my main gear and for doing better content I need to have better gear. No group lets me join if they can just take any maxed gear player and have an easier time.

The only things I can do are so outdated that I don’t find parties. The items are worthless as well. And nobody sells them on the market. I can do CM, 400 Dungeon, Remnants, All Solo Raidst up to level 420 and Irredian Shelter Stuff. Velco when there is a party. But all that stuff does not seem to be worth it to do. I did the Main Quest up to level 449. But I can’t do any more main quests. The next one comes at 450. Per CM I get 0.02% Exp with x8 Exp Tomes and other Exp Buffs. The only thing that gives some % maybe are the 3 daily dungeons. So I need to wait dozens of days or buy dungeon reset vouchers.

If you don’t have a guild or friends that carry you to other content you can’t do anything. I have 400M left from my last time when I quitted. And I can’t even buy stuff in AH because nobody sells it. There are no Fixed Ichors in market which I can buy for auto CM. And investing Millions for getting outdatdd items when farming them myself and ichoring them does not feel worth the time. The EU Server just feels dead. Maybe I am completely wrong. But this is my impression. And I even fear that I might regret starting again now because in half a year or year they could close it if I am unlucky.

[Blackwargreymon]

i have all the ■■■■ you need but trust me when you get there you ll get bored easily. cause the grind is actually brainless. i play many mmo and i can bear heavy grind as long as its not brainless but this game grind is pretty much make you like robot. the old theorycrafting of build have dead ever since they optimize build path instead of adding more unique synergizes between classes, making this game even boring with meta build in every corner.

[Teokbokki]

the endgame is not something you can do with free gears, even if you could you were being carried. at some point it require investment, whether time or money.

though i wont disagree that it is indeed boring lol
and worst of all is i hate how the dev treat the game. one thing that will keep me miss the game is maggi art (who left already).

[Shahila]

Yeah, exactly. I played on official FRO Server. I am fine with grinding hours for stuff. But honestly in this game it makes no sense to progress. I could invest all my silver now and buy some items that allow me to be able to farm stuff for getting closer to clearing the new raids.

BUT when I decide to do a break again in the future all of that will be for nothing. Because when I return later in the future one day then my gear will be worthless again. The reason for that is the ■■■■ ton of Power Creep.

The balancing is just bad. You either get oneshotted by everything or you oneshot everything. Gear makes such an enourmous difference. I am fine with gear having an impact. But it can increase your damage and tankyness by 100000000x times of the normal value. While leveling skills, attributes and other stuff barely makes a difference.

Everytime when they release a new episode they destroy all the content they produced before. Because the new stuff is so much better and replaces the old stuff. It would be a much better approach when you increase the number of good content overall. Having 20 possible raids which youc an do and which are rewarding is a lot more fun than having 3 of them. Especially because of the fact that you one shot everything in the lower raids anyway nowdays.

[draconis]

@Joejohjho

The game seems set up so that you should just complete the main quest as soon as possible so you can experience the real game

Like all F2P games, the main story is just a “hook” that is quickly finished so that you get to the part where you need to spend money. Plus you get “all-in-one” package that gives you a complete geared level 450 char if you pay for it.

@Joejohjho

Due to anti-botting changes, field monsters are no longer rewarding and are no longer unique

You kill field monsters for AJ points and the chance of getting rare items (hair accessories or skill gems). Otherwise yes they have become pointless.

@Joejohjho

From what I’ve paid attention to, the translation hasn’t been the best

Someone from Lithuania joined our guild recently. The first thing he said was that the text was hurting his eyes and ears because it was so bad…

@Joejohjho

Make quests less annoying, the worse were the quests where you had to interact with 10+ objects with 3+ second cooldowns.

There are still quests that force you to collect or dig for stuff that take 30 seconds to complete, and you must do that 5 or even 10 times to complete them… and they are repeatable! Imagine spending half an hour just clicking on those Molokoplus herbs that take minutes to respawn and you need to do that 100 times… just to get some bracelet that boost your SP by 10

@Joejohjho

Gathering, crafting, world economy, minigames, those help prevent a game from getting stale but I feel like TOS isn’t able to do any of those.

Those were existing some time ago. For example, the rainbow platform mingame was fun, but it didn’t come back for a while now. Instead we get the same “collect coins and spend them in shop to get expirable crap” event over and over which just slight variations and overcomplicated mechanics.

@Kisaragi

The leveling from 450 to 460 actually felt more like a punishment than having any progress at all.

Also something to note is that it’s the first time they prevent you from doing quests if you don’t meet the level requirement (before it was level +10). This means sometimes you have to stop and wait WEEKS before you can continue the main story because anything else give an abysmal amount of exp compared to the cards. Feels stupid.

@Casey

as it stands it’s rinse and repeat Challenge Modes buying all of the CM Vouchers in Mercenary and all of the other dungeons each week/day.

Yup. That’s why you need another game to play when you get bored of ToS. Something different, because if you try another MMO you’ll be facing the same problem. Age of Empires II works fine for me

@Shahila

Per CM I get 0.02% Exp with x8 Exp Tomes and other Exp Buffs. The only thing that gives some % maybe are the 3 daily dungeons

You have to do Gemstone Feud every day at 3.10pm server time. It gives exp cards (level 16 below 450, level 17 after 450) that are you main source of exp. When you’re 456 and stuck because you need to be 458 to do the quests on last map it still takes FOREVER to level up…

@Shahila

There are no Fixed Ichors in market which I can buy for auto CM

You just buy the placebo items from merc shop for armor. For weapons you have the event Vaivoras.

@Shahila

The EU Server just feels dead

No, but you just have veterans that are fully equipped and don’t care about others or new players that start to play and quit after a week. Or trolls that clean the market of cheap items and just put them back with higher price.

@Blackwargreymon

the old theorycrafting of build have dead ever since they optimize build path instead of adding more unique synergizes between classes, making this game even boring with meta build in every corner.

The game has become fully equip oriented vs build oriented. Too many damage multipliers on luciferie, ark, level 4 vv, level 3 armor ichors, goddess card, res sacrae and so on… Your class build with minmaxed skills and buffs with regular equipemnt can’t even complete anymore with fully endgame equipped AA char that just presses “Z”…

[Kisaragi]

@draconis

This means sometimes you have to stop and wait WEEKS before you can continue the main story because anything else give an abysmal amount of exp compared to the cards. Feels stupid.

Luckily I had enough 8x exp tomes to bring me to 460 within 2 weeks. But now you do not even have EXP bonus for weekend burning anymore, so I can see new players even more devastated because they are stuck. Free exp tomes to craft multipliers are also a rarity if given out at all, mostly it’s untradable timed ones. I tried grinding experience points in episode 13 fields, but even though the monsters died easily, you wouldn’t get more than 0,05% exp per monster(this is with about 500% EXP bonus) once you got to 456+. On such an empty map, it would take forever to level. If you thought that Ragnarok Online was bad with the level 95-99 experience, behold the experience of TOS from 450 to 460, which is worse because normal monster grinding is impossible, even with all that exp bonus value.

The best thing you can do is do the daily dungeon, the daily CMs and DS and the daily reputation quests (once you’ve reached 458 I think) and then stop playing.
I don’t think this is really the way the game should be, it forces you to attend daily to repeatable content until you’re max and then you realize you have to continue with that because you need the silver.

And then the resources are wasted once you try your luck at anviling. +9 goes to +11 goes to +8 goes to +11, rinse and repeat, while eating up millions of silver. In my opinion the +40 limit was a big mistake, they should’ve made +16 the cap so that securely reaching it with ruby anvils was possible but expensive, and balanced the status values accordingly.
Seeing people with +21 or +26 equipment just makes you feel bad, you invested all that silver for meager +16 and then you hit against stone walls in WBR and JSR because there are players who can reach higher attack with the power of anvils and their credit card for the extra silver.

We don’t even have the huge patch right now, soon it will be 520000 defense for WBR instead of the 160000 right now.
I struggle to do 1B and there are people doing 15+B because of meta and endgame equipment.

There is no fun involved in these contents, it’s just the reward bait laid out you have to take when you’re poor.

@draconis

You kill field monsters for AJ points and the chance of getting rare items (hair accessories or skill gems). Otherwise yes they have become pointless.

There are a few collections worthy to finish. Still better than running around whacking lvl 455+ monsters just for the mercenary badges.

[7aniki]

@Kisaragi

Seeing people with +21 or +26 equipment just makes you feel bad,

Dont see then, you wont feel bad. Curiousity kill the equipment-peeper.

[teeemu.ph]

Story line is only good for the 1st year of the game, afterwards its become boring/repetitive and everyone else skip and just power levels …