Tree of Savior Forum

Tank Type Build = There is no such thing. Swordmen = filler class

General Discussion
#21

Don’t forget you need a swordie for the party exp bonus.

Whatever you do, by being a swordie you become a damage soaker in party.

Swordies get the highest HP modifier because they get hit a lot by mobs.
Since you are melee, you have to get close to the enemy. Since you are the closest to the enemy, you are the first one to get targeted and hit. All other classes see you closest next to the enemy lines and expect you to get hit. If you move out of range you will deal no damage and have no other role to fill (useless). You are automatically the DMG soaker of the party by being melee, and by having no secondary utility or party buffs.

Instead, swordies were designed to rely on other classes to function properly in melee range. Requires healing/invincibility from clerics because you get hit and CC a lot etc, require back-up CC from mages, etc.

Clerics are melee too however they are excused even if they don’t deal damage since they have heal and other party skills.

Somewhere along the development they decided to lower swordie dmg because they get a lot more HP.

#22

I was thinking about something like that (I still need some advices on the rodelero skills) and it will depend on the synergies on the peltasta

T2 Peltasta : 5 in guardian OR 1 and 4 in Rim (depending on the swordman change)

T3 Hoplite : Depending on the player (Stabbing 5 or Pierce 5). Stabbing is locking the character for 6 sec but deals a lot more.

T4/T5 Rodelero : Keeping 7 points

T6 Rodelero : Taking at max the last 3 technics

T7 Hoplite 2 : Taking the Debuff for filler and AA

Hoplite + => scaling 20% block (will be nice with Murmillo block bonus),
Bonus AoE Ratio +3 and better range.

Greek-Roman themed character !

#23

the thing is, u are not dps and u are not tank, low swashbulk, while still using 1h/shield. hoplite skills are pierce, while rode/peltast are strike, probably murmilo will come with strike skills too, so hoplite doesnt combo well with rodelero.

and hoplite block isnt that good, when u hold C i think it doesnt apply, only for passive block. the build can work, but i still would go for pelt3 instead of pelt>hop2.

but if u want to go with ur build, take pierce, is a good skill, dont take more than 1 lvl in slightering, and get montano as high as u can too

#24

@skygoat
we are brothers then.
GvG is a real thing, its one of the best competition in the game. lag is out of context"subjective opinion"
and if the materializing strategy is get your guild with 90% mage in order to be on top"on which what happend to our server" then my earlier statement regarding Tree of Wizards is supported then.

its all about the tanking/survivability capability that should be narrowed down as swordman focus. because its a front liner. if you buff the swordies to get many range skills, woulndt it make more sense if you just pick archer in the slot of swordman?

@Fuwaro
das right mate

@Lenny
i am sceptic about this "Magical Ranged Attacks CHANCE"
close range magic will be unblockable. which is i think fair enough given the risk?. however its a frigging chance on which i dont trust. why?
Painbarrier +20% status resist + rush 70% statusresist = 90% BUT I GET FREEZE AND CANCEL AND STUN AND SLEEP everydamn time i get near!
and if you get disable whatelse to do if you’re asleep/stunned? you cant block phy and mag. you still aint tanking anything.

@greyhiem
party bonus is what i think the sole purpose they made swordie, to fill the classes.
i agree on the hp. however its not significant enough to make a difference to other class. your reference might came from your experience? swordmen are mandatory to invest to con compared to wiz because swordmen are obvious to do its thing in front lines. and if you are a wiz with thau, you have full int build, then transpose it all to con, you will have the best con above any class. why? int gives 10% bonus stat per clss advancement. con doesnt.
swordman full con = 367 (without gear and quest bonus)
wiz full int = 587 (without gear and quest bonus) but with class bonus
on which is TRANSPOSE-able to CON. which means you can have 587 con like no other class can do. you can tank at the most tanking potential possible.
you get hit by mobs first. yes. but wiz being able to wear plates means you as front and the back has the same tanking capability. which means it is no different if you just remove the swordie and replace it with wiz on which deals better dps. and this is the current scenario in ET even in ktos.

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#25

INB4 Murmillo gets a Transpose that swaps con and str for that clutch moment after a multitudes of hard disabling CC connecting it into the punishing ‘Umbo Storm’ and ‘Targe Quake’.
God, I need to read ShieldHero again.

#26

i love you #nohomo 20chars

#27

Yes, you will get hit the most by being melee swordie. And you are restricted by being melee. My reference is not by experience, it is how the class and its stats were designed. Swordies get the highest HP modifier, however it doesn’t mean they are the best at controlling mobs (no good CC) or sustaining hits (requires heal). Swordie HP Class Multiplier modifier (HP increase per level) is 3+, all other classes have around 1.

max HP formula is: (Class Multiplier * ((Level - 1) * 17)) + CON * 85

Teams will replace a damage soaker which only has high hp and mediocre damage with CC+high HP+utility (cryochrono) because it obviously offers more.

#28

thats why they have to increse swordsman tankness, hp/ def/ magic def/ self healing AND increase the damage
but they took 6 fcking months to buff STR a bit, so we probably going to see swordsman buffs only later this year =/

if the sht is unchanged ill probably quit when i hit high level and wait for more buff, just like 2-3 months ago

#29

i dont really think block pen is what str guys need, i think its the scaling of crit atk which should take higher boundaries of scale. or the con must have a mdef value for swordmen or new stat which is called Magic Block Rate. second to Phy Block Rate

#30

as i said in other posts, just make guard/ corss guard increase ur mdef while blocking, based on ur block rate. so with 2k block rate id have 2k mdef while blocking (while blocking i cant move too and cant atack)

and the str buff was 30%, so we used to get 1 STR = 1 Patack, now its 1.3 Patack
but we still lack dmg, and tankness…

or skills like cyclone, where u cant move a lot and are in the crowd, should have a -50% damage taken buff while using it, stabbing too
also, squire weapon maint / armour maint, should have double or triple efects to the squire, this way they could do more dmg too or go full tank…

#31

Atleast we have sprint hehe. I cant even seem to think playing another class. Without sprint. Doing quest. Wtf!!

#32

Philorial mount when?

Honestly, what is the tank archetype? Because I feel people mix up the terminology of what they want from a tank.

A Tank is one who uses their utilitarian purposes for their offensiveness, and instead focuses on pure mitigational factors to make them survive much longer and to soak up damage. They’re to disorganize the enemy’s ranks and otherwise help the damage dealers kill their targets. Providing crowd control when applicable and sometimes engaging the fights themselves.

A Bruiser is one who lacks utilitarian purposes, and instead makes up for it in raw attack power. But because of this, they’re more suited for duels and situations where they can take damage, but not as well as a Tank could. Their purpose is a mixture between Tank to disorganize, and damage dealer to kill.

Swordies in this game are trying to be of the latter. However, their ability to be a Bruiser suuuuuuuck. They’re trying to make it better, but Magic in this game due to mechanic is incredibly overwhelming with little backlash and little counterplay.

#33

yeh xD but making swordsman weak is just really bad for the game. lol most mmos the most played classes are the warriors, and some servers only have 1-2 high level ones cus ppl just quit.
if they dont fix is ppl will keep quiting once they hit high level

i played Ragnarok for years as a 2h sword knight, and i play 2h sword in ALL mmos. i tried to make a cryo>kino, its fun, but its not swordsman lol

#34

Problem is transpose is still bugged right now. Tree of bugs

#35

For non tbl PvP, the block pen update didn’t really do anything for holding down C block. Still seems like I can’t get hit when I do that. Aside from that, block never really helped much anyway unless you have stone skin. I haven’t gone in to TBL since the patch so idk about that (not that I really held down C there anyway)

As far as PvE is concerned, we can still tank (as in mitigate damage) very well including against magic attacks given a proper setup. The problem in my experience is being able to hold aggro against fletchersd, elementalists, and QS3+SR2 (maybe just SR2s also I just don’t see many without qs3) who are apparently capable of doing > 501% of my DPS even on leather bosses (my primary damage type is pierce)

My problem with IMC and swordsmen is they seem to be under the impression that tanking is nothing except for damage mitigation and gives us no tools to generate aggro besides provoke and maybe swashbuckling (but swashbuckling seems to do absolutely nothing in this regard for end game situations). In fact going specific tank routes actually seems to harm your ability to generate aggro because it makes your damage weaker for whatever reason.

Of course this really doesn’t fit for “DPS” swordsman classes such as shinobi and doppel who actually harm themselves to gain more damage (which is also silly, no other class needs to suffer through this). But those classes are still expected to tank anyway? Idk this whole class branch is a mess

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#36

I think the one who designed the swordsman tree is a masochist xD

#37

Not even mitigation, since there’s so little Swordsman particularly offers to mitigate damage except for way more block than you could possibly ever need in a game where you can’t block most of the damage coming your way anyway because it’s magic. More like damage sponge that takes full, unmitigated nukes and relies on having high CON for maximum HP and heals, which even further reduces your DPS potential, and thus your aggro potential.

#38

For some reason I was under the impression high guard gave a lot of def instead of a lot of block

lol, well, ■■■■

I guess that makes slithering the only thing that comes close to mitigation which is whatever and the new guardian update

wtf man clerics are better at this in every imaginable way

#39

2 handed lord knights sucked in Ragnarok too. They were just big bag of hp doing nothing. Nothing other then being an ass in the wiz line blocking asura’s.

#40

lol u really did play Ragnarok? my 2h sword knight was amazing…

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