All I can think to say to you is pew pew.
I wouldnât be so sure mate, while in single target sustained damage archers usually have the upper hand Swordsmen have a few perks themselves mate, i know a lot of pure DPS Swordiesâ that can easily take a top 6 DPS slot at World Boss @ 280
Too many situational variables to truly compare the two, its not really that black and white
Oh im sure mate, i am myself a 280 swordman and have other 280 swordman friends.
Swordmen as they are right now, do 20-30% of what archers do, no matter your build.
Unless you are a swordman 280 yourself and can show this unexistant top dps.
I may not be aware of all archer path, but I know right now the best bosser on swordman tree (hop3 -> doppel -> dragoon) have no chance against best bosser on archer tree (ranger 3 fletcher 3)
Bodkin point -> steady aim -> barbed arrow spam is just too ridiculous
Archers can stat a high amount of CON to fix their squishiness while still being stronger than a DPS swordie.
im not entirely certain what block has to do with Swash buckling. but i feel as though if anything Block needs a buff to deal with MDeF like it deals with PDEF. or a better idea is to take Swashbuckling from Peltasia, give it to Swordsman c1 and give Peltasia an attribute that you can turn off or on that when you use Guard it works against Magic.
or another idea is to just rename the Swordsman tree âPeltasiaâ and make Peltasia the circle 1 instead since its apparently so -needed-. someone told me going swordsman and not tanking is like going cleric and not healing. i disagree with that statement because swordsman doesnt start with swasbuckling, while the cleric is full of support skills its very first circle.
i have to argue with this, we have experimented about this having a level 185 swordsman without placing a single point of CON in it, result?
taunt + guard (all attribute maxed) 9/10 block chance almost 95% of it actually. not to mention it was a generic white shield.
another instances was after he taunted and didnât use guard © command, he just roughly ate most of the attacks, only blocking around 1-2 per 10 hits.
and as one comments earlier. yea, Block is absolutely broken as of now. it really needs to be nerfed.
Block should block attacks. youâre giving up dps to deal it. it shouldnt negate it all but what it does now is fine. if only it worked for Magic as well
im just saying. if weâre to deal crappy DPS then we should at least get something
Youâre right that Peltasta C1 gives too much and the other ranks give too little, but making it impossible to really tank without going deeper into Peltasta isnât the solution to making Swordsmen more viable. If you have to give up more ranks to tank, then you should logically get more damage from ranks of DPS classes so thereâs a real tradeoff there.
Also there really needs to be more than one tank class. Rodelero needs a lot of skill redesigns so they could be considered as an alternative or supplement to Peltasta; the way Peltasta exists just for swashbuckling and defensive attributes, Rodelero really exists just for Slithering right now.
Easiest solution for swordsmen?
Concentrate Attribute: You get 2,5% of your damage dealt back as HP.
Concentrate Attribute: Add 10 extra hits for concentrate - Max Level 3
Concentrate change: Damage: 10% of your Physical att + 5-26 (lv 1-15)
Gung Ho change: Damage: 3% of your Max HP + 8-50 (lv 1-15)
Add percentage scaling damage on all damage skills from rank 4.
Example:
Earth Wave: 150% + 1591
Lunge: 150% + 935
Dust Devil: 150% + 537
Gae Bulg: 300% + 3812
and so on.
BOOM the swordsman is fixed, nearly more than that, they are perfect now.
3 Likes
Rodelero isnât tank and isnât supposed to be.
Itâs literally defined as an attack class both in-game and within their website.
Falconer isnât green but it is defined in-game and and within their Website as a support Class.
To look at their design (excusing things being underpowered).
Last year they allowed Back-tracking but prior to that you could not pick up a class from a previous rank. If you went C3 Peltasta you werenât picking up Rodelero, that option was lost. The natural choices for a C3 Peltasta/Highlander were Squire and Corsair, both of which have defensive merit. Both classes are also defined as being for the Party.
If a Peltasta wanted to split off earlier then that they have a choice of attack oriented classes in rank 3âs Hoplite/Barbarian and Rank 4âs Rodelero/Cataphract.
Hell Rodeleroâs C1âs only âDefensiveâ aspect is an Attribute that Peltasta already has, 2 ranks prior and a weaker version of that as they dont have Peltastaâs second Guard attribute or making any statistical trade off for defense like High-Guard and Guardian.
Thereâs no point to rework them to tank because itâs not a tank class in the first place. Highlander also has a block and can reduce magical damage (Crown).
Highlander is a Jack of All trades that has defensive and offensive strengths,
Swordsman C2 is also fairly general but lacks Highlanders defensive strength. It trades defensive stats (defense and health) for offensive power and utility (Gung-ho and Restrain).
Their only concern is how they fair as C2 choices.
But given Wizard C2 is also fairly garbage and often avoided by Psychokinos and Linkers thereâs no specific justification that Swordsman C2 has to be good if Swordsman C3 becomes valuable (and its fairly decent at Pve as far as Swordsmen jobs go)
Which pretty much just leads to Highlander C1 vs Peltasta C1, where in a bubble Highlander is better at most aspects of the game EXCEPT that it doesnât break the Hate limit like Swashbuckling does.
Which is also easily rectified by just putting sufficient value in any of the Highlander circles to compete which to an extent explains the 0 CD skyliner of Ktos but is probably better suited to just making Crown, Wagonwheel or the 2h Attribute better.
Okay, so then make them a good offensive class. Just make them a good class. Just make swordsman classes not â â â â â â â awful. I donât see what your point is, really. Mine was that swordsman only has one real tank class that offers any kind of direct tanking abilities other than Rodelero. Squire is a utility/support, and saying Corsair has more âdefensive meritâ than Rodelero is pretty ludicrous considering Corsair has a very very tiny nullification chance attribute and a short duration stun while Rodelero has INVULNERABILITY TO ALL DAMAGE as well as a lot more CC including one of the only CC abilities that can effect bosses. Any damage not being dealt by enemies that are blind or stunned is effectively damage negated.
Building a dedicated tank means going Peltasta3 and then some kind of filler to either do a token amount of damage or have some minor utility. Squire fits best solely because it can provide you with a 40% health buff, but hell you could just have an alt squire AFK with refreshment table up outside of earth tower, and thatâs probably what will end up happening for really dedicated guilds that donât want to dedicate class ranks to a squire just for refreshment table.
And your idea of âwell it was clearly designed so that you would go peltasta 3 and then squire or corsairâ holds no water when you look at other classes. Hoplite3 doesnât naturally lead into Cataphract, for example. I seriously doubt they ever decided the class ranks under the basis of giving people an optimal class choice path because that really goes against the spirit of the class system.
Hoplite 3 lead to Doppel and Fencer just as Barb 3 did. Whats your point.
When they initially came up with classes they didnât allow backtracking so the framework prior was very linear in its intentions. Very few classes have actually received tweaks to prosper off of the additional options.
As a consequence of the addition theyâve increased the number of variables for class balance, which ends up creating more paths which are sub-par.
Ultimately my point was that the skills of Highlander C1 and Sword C2 are in competition with Peltasta. Unless Swashbuckling becomes naturally less relevant (increasing the amount of Hate on the map) like DPS skills, it just makes sense to deal with Highlander and Swordsman primarily balance wise as these paths work as splits to what a Swordsman is going to do. If you canât provide some structure to choice (trade offs) then youâre not really providing choices which makes going Pel and playing defensively simple.
If you go Pel what do you lose.
You donât necessarily lose 2h access because its still available by getting Barb and Doppel.
You lose some damage in skills which doesnât matter particularly since damage skills of low ranks c1âs generally fall off.
You lose the 2h crit Attribute which isnât a big deal because crit attack isnât in a powerful stat or you lose Restrain from C2 Swrd.
Solution seems pretty simple to me, hit the R2 choice balance first and then move from there. The issue was emphasized in the first place when Skyliner was nerfed.