Tree of Savior Forum

Swordsman issue isn't about class, it's about the current game setting

General Discussion
#1

Beware: UPCOMING WALL OF TEXT

As of the Current Game-Setup. it is indeed Swordsman are struggling specially on higher levels such as 200+, from what i’ve read most of posts here. they seemto be missing the real issue. why they aren’t viable, why they aren’t given importance, and why ‘Pelastra’ feels like a must-have as a swordsman.

Here are my thoughts;

1. Monsters are all in general the same

–What do i mean by this? the only strategic attribute they have is their Armor type (plate,cloth,leather) which increase or decrease damage based on weapon used. and typically, those stuffs HIT swordsman in the ASS. while having Archers (Missile type) and Wizards (magical damage) making the best, or should we say ‘BETTER’ Damage dealer than swordsman. given they are Melee Class.

=my solution in mind? Monster should have attribute as well, and should atleast have 1 or 2 of it:

    1. Monster Defensive Physical attribute = Gives the monster almost 85% resistance to “ANY” PHYSICAL (strike,slash,pierce) attacks
    1. Monster Defensive Missile attribute = Gives the monster almost 85% resistance to “RANGE” Physical attack or Missile type attacks.
    1. Monster Defensive Magic attribute = Gives the monster almost 85% resistance to “MAGICAL” Damages.

Having these changes will give players a thought of who to party with, and what Class to bring with in specific dungeons/places to level-up. thus, swordsman will be more than welcome to places that Archers and Wizards are not suitable.

2. The Peltasta - Taunt (swash Bucking) issue.

i actually believe that it was the guard attribute and related to it that makes them good. follows as listed. as pressing © Guard button strangely increase your Block by a ridiculous amount. (mine was 307 up to 1737 when guarding)

Guard:Defense = phy def +10% per LV (max Lv5) total of 50% DEF
Shield mastery Block = Block + 5% per Lv (max LV5) total of 25% Block

(all these are at pelt C1)

these are the main reasons why pelt1 is much like a 'MUST-HAVE" as a TANK. the difference is there.

=Solution in mind? Block value *when using Guard ©) should be nerf, and add that as attribute. these attributes should be available at C2 Peltastra, as making C1 Pelt Not enough as a ‘Tank’ since they only has taunt, but no defensive attribute that buffs them.

3. Lack of Main Quest/Side Quests.

-Last Quest Available as i know is at Igti Coast, and that is Lv235 Map. also Main reason why most people soloing are being stuck, due to lack of EXP CARDS available as of now. people are now stuck into grinding, and that’s where my First post comes in.

What are your thoughts guys? looking for some good additions to all these, even if this post has a NEAR-IMPOSSIBLE chance to be noticed by devs (around .01 chance just like RNG), that’s still a reason for me to post this stuffs. and if found useful. maybe somehow. things might be in favor of our ol’ good swordies.

#2

Block needs a nerf as a whole. No reason to further bash swordie by reducing their block, while Stoneskin gives around the same and doesn’t restrict your actions at all.

#3

So you want to take the last good thing from swordmen(def)?
You want swordmen to realy have one and only build?
How it will fix any thing?
Swordsman need somthing that will make monsters to no run grom then at no point.
They need more att.
They need much more hp,even as full tank you are dead after 3-5 attackson you later on.

#4

i think you missed the first part of my post. regarding the monster attributes, by means of last good thing from swordmen (def), you are literally saying that currently swordsman are nothing but a pile meat of shield to be used for the team? i feel sad hearing from a fellow player. sorry if my post offended you, i didn’t mean that way.

#5

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#6

Its how it is.i didnt get ofended

#7

Your thread title is more or less correct, but the content is not.

Block is irrelevant when dealing with magic. Taunt is the only thing making swordman valuable in party.

Like every single MMORPG ever, a standard grinding party will consist of a tanker (taunt + aggro), some healer to keep the tank alive, and then as many DPS as possible.

However, the nature of TOS DPS is as you said: missile and magic damage are much more versatile, not only that, they deal greater amount of raw damage as well.

The reality is it is not that swordman tank is too good, it is that swordman DPS is too bad that they are forced to play tank.

Let check mage + archer DPS advantages:

  • Ranged (safe, someone else tank for them)
  • More skills, less cooldown (more interactive game play)
  • Higher base damage
  • Better scaling
  • Good AoE crowd control (sleep, fear, silence etc)

Meanwhile swordman DPS:

  • Melee, and have NO defensive mechanic besides block
  • Less skill, more cooldown, more reliant on auto attack (which is weak and slow and ping dependent as well)
  • Ok-ish base damage (same as archer, higher than certain mage build)
  • No scaling until rank 6-7, and needs to make sacrifice for the damage scaling
  • Bad crowd control (single target stun, knock back etc)
  • The only plus point is more HP
5 Likes
#8

I agree. The cooldown / damage ratio on melee is absolute garbage. And then you stand there and the only thing you can do is auto attack or use skills that don’t do damage even if you skill the enhance attribute to 100%.

#9

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#10

That actually never happens to me, as a swordman I always keep aggro, even without peltasta. The only time anyone ever steals aggro from me is the fellow swordman with peltasta, swashbuckling add more aggro than I can handle.

#11

Swords are important being the tank - mob and boss control. You have no idea when I see a swordie tanking and luring everything into a nice bunch for the DPS to finish up. A high evasion archer can only tank so much when they are more paper than a swordie.

That my friends is MMORPG teamwork. I think Swordies are valuable, but Peltasa just have it easier to fufill the tankster role. Sure the DPS swordies could use some help, but just saying swords are great for the role they can fill up.

It is only natural and Archers and Mages will out dps anything.

1 Like
#12

Like the OP, you too have the right title/intro but the wrong idea. It is not bad dps that is forcing Swordies to play tank, it’s the community wanting someone(thing) to taunt for them.
Unless swordies became several times the (aoe) dps of other base classes, this isn’t likely to change.

1 Like
#13

Actually I got that perfectly right.

Everyone want to have a taunt in party, even swordman DPS want some others to taunt and tank for them. So swordman tank is and should be a perfectly viable build.

The problem is that other classes DPS are far better than swordman DPS, hence no one wants swordman DPS. I mean look at the standard RPG party, you need tank, healer and DPS. There is nothing against swordman to be the DPS. However, since the party slot is limited, you want to fill each slot with the most efficient char, and swordman DPS is not the most efficient one.

It’s not the community wants all swordman to taunt, it’s the community never wants swordman DPS in the first place.

2 Likes
#14

and i think this is the reason why my first point should be taken. archers and mages are far more superior to DPS because of monster properties. their armor type only deals issues mostly to swordsman, but not missiles and magic damages that doesn’t even care to those armors.

if monster attributes are there, that would open up to make a group where swordies are given more importance, specially if the monster in a certain area has a 85% missile and 85% magic resistance type.

but still a dream, that is… :frowning:

#15

This is why in kTOS all swordsmen are getting a +50% slash buff. So that they do at least 125% (100% on ghost) to all mobs.

The only problem is the “overheat” system in this game. They should have their own internal cooldowns, allowing you to either blow everything in one go, or time them to keep the debuffs up. How it is right now really hurts a lot of classes with overheat.

Fix those two issues, and swordsman damage will be on par with mages/archers

#16

Archers don’t get ‘benefit’ from this monster properties (unless we are taking into consideration of Fletcher’s Barb Arrow), our arrows is missile dmg (we get heavily punished against players or mobs who have high block) – but archers do have +dmg against flying when using 2h bow and ignoring perhaps only 25% enemy def when using a xbow. Archers hurt, because their role is DPS. Plate mobs, magic mobs and archer mobs hurt u more than they would hurt a swordie. Archers have naturally high atk dmg and crits.

Mages get elemental properties – but that is dependent if it is not the same element of fire as a pyro, or an ice as a cryo. Best thing mages get is never missing their magic attacks and they go through phy def. But they are limited by their cooldown and their mana pool. Mages naturally have high magic atk and are heavy CC and nuking power.

Swordies are naturally tanky. They do have some DPS and CC, but they excel at what other classes might not be able to do and that is controlling mobs and aggro so his/her party members are kept safe and sound as they are getting their faces bashed in.

#17

Okay but in a game about class customization and versatility, you could argue you could build for an evasion tank archer. High DEX, high CON, moderate SPR and STR. You could use your bow to quickly change targets and pull mobs to you. Perhaps you are a QS, you can use running shot, have them aggro you and chase you in circles. Use leather armor. Like a swordie, magic would be a problem, but we deal.

Does that mean archers would be the best tanks? No. Of course not, as our starter and evolutionary stats contradict that. You can build for it though. Swordsmen cannot really build to not take damage. We are up on the monsters, we take damage, because sprint can and will fail. We do not have the safety advantage of distance. Between magic and physical, we get hit. This also stops a lot of DPS. Swordies aren’t as bad as a lot of people lead on, but building for a DPS specific build especially with how magical damage works just isn’t plausible. Most other games have a way around this - extremely high damage that does beat out other DPS classes, making it worth it to make a pure damaging burst Swordsman. You usually have a down time penalty of some sort, need heals a lot, but it’s still worth it. Alternatively speed swordsmen, mixture of average damage distribution and damage taken. Again with magic damage, swordsmen having crap MDEF, MDEF not scaling well period, magic not being dodgeable, and were right up on the monster which means auto aggro… Other classes still win out because we have to have higher HP (less stats to spread for an even build) and were busy sprinting around what we can miss, while everyone else is safely out DPSing us. You literally don’t have to do much but stand back and pew pew as an archer, maybe run a bit from stray mobs and SP management.

So again, yes Swordsman is best at tanking when built for it. Just not everyone wants a close combat tank. In games with less class options and more linear stat/skill distribution I’ve had more options in a CC class. Hell, we even pay more for repairs, and of course the “unless you take one circle of pelt you are not welcome” stance limiting us even further. Unless you love CC, Swordsman is just very limiting in terms of versatility and at more of a disadvantage than anything as a main character, compared to everything else. Only class who has a harder time leveling is Clerics in the early stages of the game, late game, they are golden with parties, which is when you really need one the most.

2 Likes
#18

Yeah, swordies are naturally tanky, but if they are supposed to be used as tanker why did IMC make a lot of DPS classes for swordies? They should have made only tank classes if that was the case, I made a swordsman with all classes being supposed DPS classes, but my damage is ridiculous, I would totally trade half of my HP for a better damage. The problem is even if you choose to be a DPS swordie you still get more defensive than offensive, what they should do is increase defensive stats for tank classes, and for DPS swords they should give more attack, if we choose to make a DPS swordie we need damage and not a bunch of HP.

2 Likes
#19

eeh… the buff is only for barbarian, the worst swordman build ever if you wanna paly pve, hoplite,cataphract and so on don’t go barbarian. so your post is bullcrap

1 Like
#20

You need the bunch of HP, you’re melee range, or you’d rather get one shot by the boss?