Tree of Savior Forum

Swordsman is a joke DPS at high levels, but why? (this post was made in April, before R8)

If the difference DPS between Archer/Swordman weren’t so Abusive it would be ok, but at the current state it’s just meaningless absurdly unbalanced.

IMC Shoud make the Agro a non-necessary shield Skill at Rank 1 Swordman by taking the “Tank class logic”

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I was always happy playing warriors at alot of MMORPGs, Them i faced TOS absurdly Warrior class unbalancing.

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only acceptable dps right now is hop2 corsair2 spear build. piercing +50% damage and hexen dropper hurts.

I think also the rank 7 classes are unfinished right now.

melee should be most damage class as melee not gonna have 100% up time as u know boss mechanic mostly affecting melee. also melee is squishy at late game as all the magic damage.

FF14 for example, you have two different types of melee classes.

Tanks and DPS. Both are viable, both can find a place in party play, and they aren’t in conflict with each other. Why in TOS we label swordies as tanks-only?

Classes like Doppelsoeldner and Dragoon are labeled as DPS(in theory by design), but instead they do no damage(compared to other classes). Just compare the snipe skill with any of the dragoon’s skill and you will see the difference.

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This thread was such a terrible read, ONE person in the entire thread used actual freaking math and then got spammed cuz he disagreed with the “x5 less dmg” comment. Bring some damn stats to the table instead of a photoshopped picture.

I grouped with a pretty good dragoon in the 217 dungeon
I cant remember what his build was, he didnt use cata at all, and used shield+spear.

Our entire team disconnected and it was just me and him. He taunted the room into my gravity pole, and then did some damage skills, and it easily matched my damage. Working as a team as a hybrid dps/cc and a dps/puller we duod the place.

Earlier when we had two elementalists frost cloud just killed everything so fast it honestly doesnt matter what either of our damage outputs were

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Mate, he calculated the strongest single hit skill of swordmans tree (Gae Bulg from dragoon) + LvL 10 Warcry (10 Targets atribute) + Frenzy max stacked(20 basic attacks to get it) + Deeds of Valor Max Stacked (Take 10 Hits and your defense will be 0) in the end the dmg he calculated was around 10K on the gae bulg.
PS:. Deeds of valor is ranking 7 Doppel2 so you cant have gae bulg and deeds lv10

The other guy calculated Sniper(25 sec delay) without any buff and stuff simple physical attack + the skill power and it was around pure 28K

An simple pure Gae Bulg(30 sec delay) is around ~4,5K

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Yet one of the OP’s competing candidate is Frost Cloud, a skill with 30 hits.

So apparently ‘single hit’ is not the actual criteria for comparison here.

If we goes by per skill, nobody seem to want to calculate Cyclone to compete against Snipe for some reason…(which have 2 overheat)

Btw, Deed of Valor 10 would means c2 Doppel, i.e. no way to take Dragoon in the current version of the game.

Its unconstrained but… … server will up in 2 mins from now???
Yep they up, thanks for discussion , time to get back and check the new TP costume
Dont give up fellow swordies, FIGHT FOR IT !!!

That’s all brilliant and all but simply comparing the skills with the highest numbers doesn’t reflect overall damage output. There is so much more that needs to be calculated/considered before you even attempt to reach for your pitchforks.

I’m incredibly baffled to see people read OP and took it as gospel truth.

zzzzz.
Helm Chopper lvl 15 for Instance. 2 hits of 100% your basic attack and 1445 skill damage. Ends up as 200% your basic attack + 2885. Enemy defense of course is calculated twice (since two hits are done) and it stuns. Wizards Lethargy can add an additional 100% to it for both hits for 400% your basic attack + 5780. It has two charges so you can use it twice before it goes on cooldown meaning 400% + 5780 your physical attack to land both hits and both charges, or 800% your basic attack + 11560 to land both hits and both charges on a target affected by Wizards Lethargy (and I know your team has a Wizard). There’s also the possibility of a 50% bonus for the target being plate type.
You can get 800% of your basic attack out of just putting Helm Chopper on cooldown while stunning targets. This damage doesn’t get mitigated by the enemy being a boss either, as Helm Choppers damage isn’t dependent on stun. Snipe doesn’t have Overheat so that damage is all it does in its cooldown. Helm Chopper does and it hits twice so the potential damage you get per cooldown is a lot higher then what you see just looking at the tooltip.

Then if said target is stunned you can follow up with Cleave which does 2.5 damage on stunned targets and has 2 overheat… however it wont apply to bosses since they cannot be stunned.
Then you still have Seism and other skills to throw into the rotation.

Then the same thing happens for Carter Strike… 4 hits, 2 overheat.
thats 4x your physical attack and its skill base being applied. Do it two types thats 8x your physical attack and its skill base being put out just to put Carter Strike on cooldown. Carter is Strike type so again Wizard can double its damage to outputting 16x your physical attacks worth in a cooldown rotation. There’s a ton of damage to be had here, while you can still block physical damage either from your Highlander c1 or Peltasta C1 investment, which makes you much sturdier then mage/archer counterparts so long as magic damage isn’t on the table.

Nah catar stroke required a stupid long time to cast, thats why people only put 5-7/15, so the base skill dmg is an ugly truth …Remember that as melee players you will always get hit so that charging catar in most situation is not worth …

And as i said, we cant block range physical attack (arrow for example), all we can do is block melee physical attack, so … it come to some funny moments, when you try to block mobs attack, you cant attack it, drawn game. Casting skill is fine in range, but for melee? not cool man.

And when you invest cross guard to block physical melee attack as highlander c1, we will back to the old problem “swordies MUST be tanker”

Reality is not so cool isnt it?

You can block range physical attack FFS!!!

You dont have to fully charge carter, its the same Deal with Energy Bolt and Full draw. More levels means you get access to previous levels earlier which still ends up in your favor because the quantity of hits is independent of level, only the skill base changes.

You can block ranged physical attacks, missiles are completely blockable. You cannot block magical damage, thereis a clear distinction. Manipulate the game mechanics accordingly. Getting 4 hits out of a level 5 Carter strike takes a half second.

Mitigating damage doesn’t equate to tanking. That’s as ignorant as stating that Clerics are a tank class because of Safety ground.
Cross Guard allows you to block a hit which means you do not have to run away (moving away and back is a dps loss) and since Stagger provides a 100% bonus to Pierce attacks it means that you’re follow up attacks are more potent making up for the time you spend blocking in the first place. This allows for a counter-hit gameplay and is why a few Highland builds incorporate Thrust to take advantage of the double damage at earlier levels.

Reality is a lot simpler then you think it is.

congrats for posting a bug that is already fixed, scrub :slight_smile:

everyone who has a half brain knows that swordsman needs percentage scaling for their skills, they have to go melee and always have the risk to die quickly when you mess up a dodge against strong bosses and pvp, at least give the swordsman tht are supposed do deal damage hard buffs.
Barb,Highl,Cata,Doppel,Dragoon,Shinobi and so on.

50-100% + 4000 sounds solid für skills like zucken,earth wave and so on
or give more skills attributes that increase the crit rate drastically.

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Hello everyone. Started playing on launch, actually S1 H1 B3 D1 full str/cons, and so far had no regrets. This thread got my attention, as the damage dealing is great. I think in ToS and LOTS of MMORPGs, swordman classes are geartest. What do I mean? It HARDLy depends on its gear. Im rippin my arse off to always get the best 2h sword, and with the right sockets and gems, (crit rate usually) I get tons of damage. Lets not forget we got dash, really high HP, high armor, Crossguard, stuns, and an anti knock skill.

Please correct me if im wrong, but my Doppel so far is making me really happy. U cant get low damage if you have a Magi 2h with three 5-star green gems. Thats LOTS of crits :slight_smile:

And dont forget to stack AoE Attack Ratio…

you are 220+ yet?
the doppel rank 6 is strong
but the main problem is when u access to rank 7
archer class got a super duper omg skill which make sword like a joke
wizard out dps us easy when they dont even need int

so the best way to fix this is to buff rank 7 class (doppel/dragoon/shinobi)
skill damage and add more scale to its

this basically solves all the problems