Tree of Savior Forum

[Suggestion] Token price reduction compensation

General Discussion
#132

Realistically, those shouldn’t be considered because in the first place, it was illegal. Nevertheless, IMC already said it themselves that they are actually careful about these things, which is why we have alot of restrictions in the first place so we could only take their word for it.

We also have no proof if there was actually an oversupply of token due to bots/boleto exploiters so its also a possibility that it’s actually just an oversupply due to the low demand since almost everyone has their own token to use when the game started. No one actually knows so your argument is invalid since it’s just backed by an assumption.

With your suggestion though, you also want legit players to be punished for their hardwork and you talk about fairness? Hypocrite.

#133

but that did happen, also with the help of
low demand since almost everyone has their own token to use when the game started.
Ignoring it wont change reality.

So once those tokens’ time ends demand will rise so prices will do same aswell.

Trying to apply supply/demand logic into chaotic unstable market wont work.

Btw i expect more token infestation waves: right after the compensation and once they allow direct TP purchases. Then in a couple of months market will stabilize but prices wont be as low as we used to see them (to begin with pricing $20 item for 2 hours of casual gameplay worth of currency is dumb).

I never said anything about punishment, dont put words in my mouth. They awarded themselves with token supply for their “hard” work and that hasnt changed. Giving out extra freebies is pointless.

I feel like we are about to go in circles again. Maybe stop?

#134

Proof that there’s actually an extremely huge supply from bots and boleto users? You’re also forgetting the fact that the market prices is being limited by this min-max system where undercutting won’t work thus the huge drop on prices were limited to an extent.

If we also apply the law of supply and demand here, let’s say there were 10 pages of tokens from legit players and 20 more pages from bots/exploiters. Do you seriously believe that the prices won’t get any lower if there were only 10 pages of legit token sellers?

Hypothetically, if let’s say IMC was able to remove the 20 pages of tokens from bots/exploiters. 10 pages of supply is still huge, huge enough to make the prices lower and lower. That is inevitable, that is the basic rule of supply and demand.

See. This is why your logic fails so bad. You are expecting more waves of tokens on the market once the compensations were delivered AND more once they allow direct TP purchase. That is indeed true BUT you’re expecting the prices won’t be as low? I keep repeating this but are you for real? You keep going back here w/o understanding the basic law of supply and demand, which is why we are —[quote=“nizidr, post:133, topic:280148”]
we are about to go in circles again
[/quote]
You are deliberately being stubborn and almost everyone in this thread against your idea can clearly see that. WHICH is the main reason we kept going in circles, you are re-using invalid arguments and dumb logic which were already thrown out of the window.

#135

198TP will permanently be repriced as 99TP. Give half of the TP back to those who possess/used prior 198TPs. It’s so simple, why do you have to make it so complicated? It’s not like dlc buyers got nothing for their tokens when they sold it.

#136

About 2 weeks after those boleto exploiters were banned at one day 30 pages of tokens at their minimum allowed market price appeared on every server (except Varena, because there were no transfers on it nor exclusive access to it). Where did they come from? Also they weren’t removed but gradually bought out by players, including during current compensation hype.

Conspiracy theorists may suggest that those were injected by IMC themselves to help F2P crowd to acquire tokens they werent able to buy because there are no way to directly purchase TP.

Yes, because it is impossible because they were already at their minimum limit set by IMC. I and think they will keep minimum price to protect token sellers from rash and poorly thought decisions like selling their valuables for literally nothing.

#137

Nope. Not enough proof. You have no guarantee that these tokens were really from bots/exploiters not to mention, you also have no proof that IMC was never able to filter these out.

They were bought at a price that the sellers thought was fair. The price that the law of supply and demand forced them into. The players who bought the tokens have paid in full price of silvers equivalent to 198 TP. If you think it was too cheap, blame the sellers, not the buyers. If you’re gonna use the argument bots/exploiters again, refer to my reply above again so we could stop going in circles.

If you missed it, I made this reply on the main announcement thread,

#138

But then there is no proof that they werent, or that IMC did remove them.
You ask for proof when you havent provided any for your own assumptions (yes assumptions).
See where it is going?

I actually check prices quite often so i saw them being bought out gradually that goes against “filtering out” theory.

Ok. From now on i’ll say that they appeared from nowhere.

I think they should limit minimum price to 700k or 1m for tokens.
If you call me crazy thats ok but there is a reason for that - to create a competitive price with most RMTers so they either lower their prices (and that will cut their profits greatly), or they leave if it becomes not profitable to do their business.

P.S. I am aware that i can use twisted logic sometimes, but there is always a grain of reason within.

P.P.S. Too hot. Sun is killing me, i’m melting.

#139

Yeah… I agree with OP on this one.

It’s kind of bullshit if you got the beginner’s pack for instance. Because you are paying a ridiculous price already and they go and make it so that only 30 day tokens will be compensated… I mean… So am I to believe that a 15 day token I PURCHASED within an overpriced DLC pack is an Event Token?

Garbage.
I wish I could have my money back for this one.

#140

Exactly why I said realistically, it shouldn’t be considered. You can’t use it as your argument because you’re just pushing an assumption to everybody else.

Jesus. I feel like arguing with a kid with that kind of reasoning. Anyways no, you don’t even have proof that you were checking prices often and even if you did, it wouldn’t matter. We would still have no proof whether IMC is actually filtering out the non-legit tokens or not.

You already said it yourself. This is why you can’t apply your logic to anyone. It also makes your suggestion and own credibility more questionable.

Reminds me so much of this,


Seriously makes me cringe.

Player A: Hey I’m gonna join the bandwagon! I want a good class to play!
Player B: That is such a bad thing to do!
Player A: Awwww, my class got nerfed!
Player B: That is what you usually get for playing easy cookie-cutter builds. Karma - it bites.

By this logic, Player A did something bad or awful to deserve a bad karma. cringes again

#141

yep, he jumped the bandwagon instead of thinking for himself. Especially if that is one-trick-pony class that depends on questionable gimmik of animation skipping.

#142

I think people who support the compensation are also forgetting another thing: they keep saying that people paid the amount of silver equivalent to 198 TP.
Well, that’s in fact wrong, because the only sellable TP items atm are tokens, and that’s a not real way to measure how much TPs are worth because you can/could get tokens in other ways.
I mean, people paid silver for a token, not paid silver for 198 TP then bought a token with those: so why are they giving them back TP they never bought in the first place? I think it’s obvious that TP price is higher than the equivalent of the TP a token costs.
That’s why people are complaining and saying give them an extra month of token, that would be the most logical solution.

Also no matter what everyone keep saying i believe token prices will stay higher even after the compensation or will eventually get higher in a short time, thus making all these ppl who get compensation (and some who even bought their stock of tokens at 350k ea) gain a lot of money doing nothing.

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#143

agree with u. I dont know why ppl say about compensation to ppl, who buy tokens from market, and dont say about compensation to ppl, who buy tokens from TP shop. its like womens ligic) Coz they dont have it) :grin:

#146

Token prices have a minimum limit. Even at 99 TP they would of sold for the same price. [quote="_Yuki, post:128, topic:280148"]
are you sure?you implying that everyone who bought token with tp sold it.but I’m getting compensated for the token I bought with tp, which is btw gaining from it.
[/quote]

Nearly everyone did. Why? Because there were tokens supplied with the founders packs. And because TP was limited it made more sense to buy them with silver during the first month, to have a token active the second month onwards.

And you are in the minority there. Most that bought tokens no longer have them, and wont gain TP for it. Btw, I hope you havent used that token yet; because you wont get TP compensation if you have.

I’ll keep saying this untill you stop ignoring it.

There is a minimum price limit. Tokens cant be sold below a certain value unless A LOT of them get sold, in which case the limit will slowly drop. The limit resets back to 500k each week, however.

No, they got a token, which was sold for the minimum price at the time. They would not have gotten less silver if the tokens costed less TP. Because the price was locked via means of the limit.

Have you considered yet that compensation is given out to all teams? Imagine will would happen if RMTs were to have bought tokens with silver, before the compensation is given out.

With the way the limit works, and seeing how tokens are a limited demand item: it would barely make the prices lower at all before the next maintenance would happen, resetting token prices.

I hope I’m wrong here, but I expect to see RMTs controlling the token market for atleast a week after the compensation.

They were bought at the minimum limit the market allowed. As has been the case since very nearly (but not quite) the very beginning.

You cannot equate TP to silver just like that. There’s no listed exchange rate. People didnt '‘buy tokens worth 198 TP’. They bought tokens with silver, at their minimum listing price.

At first I thought your earlier post understood this. I was surprised, I even liked it. Now I realised I was wrong, I did not properly read it.

#147

Used token will get COMPENSATED.
try reading the announcement again.

#148

Try reading that quote again. Warning: you might feel a bit silly after doing so. Especially since that particular word (all 2 letters of it) are Capitalized and all. Kind of hard to miss.

#149

So, with these statements, you do agree that the people would actually list for lesser prices if they were actually allowed to, it’s just that the min-max system of the market disallowed undercutting.

That basically supports the idea that the buyers actually have bought something that should’ve been at a lesser price.

This only proved that the supply and demand is indeed dictating the prices to an extent but just being limited by IMC’s min-max system on the market.

This is not something to be considered if IMC were to choose a fair way to compensate for such change. After all, some people controlling the market has always been a thing in MMOs. If IMC were to consider this they would have to penalize even the legit players.

Also, in the first place, the players you guys are accusing of hoarding the tokens didn’t even see this coming. They hoarded it because they were smart. They saw that there was too much supply yet very small demand for tokens to the point that tokens became dirt cheap. They took the best decision that would benefit them in the long run.

It’s just that there’s suddenly this price cut and compensation that favors them. Did they planned this? No. Do they deserve their compensation? Yes. Why? Because they have spent a silver that is equivalent to 198 TP based on the seller’s judgement.

But there is an exchange rate. Who dictates it? Players? Nope. IMC? Nope. Me? No. Top 1 player? No. It’s not a who. It is a what. The law of supply and demand dictates the price.

#150

it only supports an idea that:

  1. sellers are dumb
  2. bots dont care about prices as long as they get silver from token.
  3. sellers trying to undercut bots are even dumber.

Do you actually support the idea of them being even cheaper after saying that?

#151

And this means that legit players should be penalized?

And again, nothing really supports #2. No proof to make it a valid point.

After all the exploitation that happened. The market started to stabilize. In our server’s case (Telsiai), the token became stable at 400k. If that’s the price $$$ers wanted to sell a 198 TP item at, who are we to stop them? Or maybe, there’s such a low demand that barely anyone is biting that they had to keep lowering it. It’s still cheap yes but that’s really how it goes as long as there’s too much supply.

It is inevitable that it will become alot cheaper still after the token TP price changes.

If IMC would not reset the current min-max prices of Tokens though, expect me to join this parade of yours.

#152

Copy paste from announcement.
Warning: you might feel a bit silly after reading it.

Users Eligible for Compensation

Note: Conditions apply exclusively to regular 30-day Tokens. Event
Tokens such as 7, 15 or 60-day Tokens will not be considered for
compensation purposes.

A. Those using at least one Token at the time of the price change.

B. Those possessing at least one Token within their team at the
time of the price change (includes those possessing a Veteran’s Pack DLC
unopened in their Inventory or Message Box).

Compensation Items

Note: Compensation will be given to each eligible team individually
(i.e. users with more than one team across multiple servers will receive
compensation for each of their teams).

  • 99 TP per Token being used or possessed (according to the
    conditions above): sent directly to each eligible team’s Inventory

  • 7-day Token time extension (applied to all Tokens being used, regardless of type)

#153

Some of these people who wants to change the compensation makes their arguments based on assumptions. bots, exploit. you dont know how that affected anything. I think the exploit wasnt as big as it was made out to be. The one post that made it known had misleading charts and info in it. You also dont know if the bots got the lower priced packs so they could get more bots in the game.

But the facts are: player bought token for 198tp. Player then sold token for what they thought it was worth in silver. The tokens bought now have their tp value cut in half, hence the people who actually have the tokens get compensated. The ones who sold them already got their tp worth in silver.

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