Tree of Savior Forum

Steamworkshop implementation for artists

Since they will be using Steam to distribute the game I hope they take advantage and try to use steam workshop so artists from around the world can contribute to the in game shops for cosmetic attire and hats.

This way new creative things will always be consistently pushed out based on community votes and final decision by IMC Games to whatever gets accepted and both artists and company make money! Look at games like Dota 2 for example.

I hope they seriously consider having artists contribute to this beautiful game, I honestly think it’s a smart decision community and business wise.

I have some ideas and concepts I’d love to collaborate with 3d artists in the future for sure! ( If my memory is correct, the models are actually 3d inside the ToS engine.)

In the end if this gets implemented, there wouldn’t be any reason to have any pay to win things in the in game shop.

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The only thing I see when I look at games like Dota 2 and Counter Strike are digital items being sold for 100 US$ or more. So no thanks, I will pass, just let me farm for my items like always.
Also bringing the community market to ToS would just destroy any feeling of reward that the gameplay may have to offer.

The difficulty is, ToS has an extremely specific art style. Dota2 is much easier to design stuff for as the style is more forgiving.

Not that I disagree. It’d be a cool idea. They could do it in the form of competitions in the community, perhaps.

If IMC goes under financially, there will be no farming, as the game will be closed. The cash shop is a necessity for the game to survive, and letting talented players contribute to that has the dual benefit of more cool stuff in the cash shop whilst giving IMC more time to make game content rather than cash shop content.

The only trap is how the players will be rewarded - how this is handled in a legal manner is beyond my expertise. If it’s done as part of a competition, a prize should be sufficient, but taking submissions on the workshop has all sorts of legal hoops and stuff such as royalties etc. that i’m not sure on.

Anyways, cosmetic content doesn’t really affect the game at all.

it is nice to have artists around the world to contribute something to the game, but the main question is when will this game will be out or open beta… i have waited nearly two years…

I don’t want to be a boring person but…

I think that what’s going to happen is just like tera, steam will provide trading cards for ToS and it may be it.

There are a ton of community related content underneath $10. Either way this content is you getting cool stuff as well as the longevity of the game. I understand what you’re afraid of and remember in RO you can make and get hats through quests and materials you gather…etc and it is awesome. You can still have both for sure.

@Lobcat

I really hope not, so far they’ve been open to community translation, they seem like a company open to these kinds of ideas, heres to hoping. Fingers crossed :smile:

@Skendya

Of course you make a great point and that’s something an artist will have to slightly deal with. Try to get the same style as best as you can and have IMC do finalized changes to match. I know Valve does that with Dota 2 creations.

Already discussed this somewhere else, but not at proper place. So thank you for making this thread. :sunglasses: I personally want to participate in workshop activities. It’ll be a good practice for me to modify and create my own ToS models/skins/assets. I have a lot of crazy ideas in my mind right now and those ideas are waiting to be put in action.

Cash Shop =/= Community Market. I’m ok with a cash shop with prices being regulated by IMC but I’m not ok with items being sold in community market where prices are regulated by the players insanity, making some items completely inaccessible for most of the players.

@gurzy
Unfortunately I don’t think you can. Having items on community market would remove any need to play the game for drops or in-game currency. If you want to pay 100 bucks for a digital costume it’s yours congratulations. If you don’t want to GTFO, this content wasn’t meant for you, bye.
So a ton of content underneath 10$ hum? The day you can find a knife, any knife, for this price the hell will froze solid.

Even in games like Elsword I could play secret dungeons, sell drops, ask for loans, buy cheaper stuff in cash shop to resell and then after a long time I was able to buy content that would cost me around 300US$ if trying to get it with real money. In CS:GO there’s nothing I can do it besides agree with this insane concept of paying the above price of a triple A game for a digital knife…WTF?

What I want is a way around the cash shop for the players that are committed to your game but have some basic moral restrictions that don’t allow them to spend a fortune on digital goods, and the community market doesn’t allow such a thing.

@Shiro

Yeah my bad, didn’t word correctly I meant community related content handled through IMC’s Cash Shop my apologies :smile:

@gurzy

I don’t such think a thing have been implemented before. Workshop items are sold on community market so they can be profitable for all the parties (Valve, developer, creator) and keep profitable throught the resale taxes.

@Shiro Sorry, I wasn’t sure of what you meant.

Then again, all these items are cosmetic, so isn’t it (in the scope of Dota2/CS) perfectly fine to let creators/sellers set their prices? It’s up to players if they want to buy it or not. They have no impact on the game, after all, and aren’t integral to your enjoyment. You do not need a $300 knife to play competitively or casually.

@Shiro

If you’ve played Dota 2 you’d see the content created by professionals and hobbyists alike have their content sold by valve on their store at the prices valve seems fit on the main menu screen of the game (Store Tab). Nothing has ever exceeded $100 (to my knowledge) on the store, even arcane items unless it goes out of sale, and directly sold on the community market- that’s when people make their own prices.

A lot of the prices are $5-15 for really great quality content

@gurzy

Interesting, but in Dota you dont drop items playing the game right? Neither you have a in-game currency to purchase those items right? I can’t see how such a model would work in ToS.

Also let’s imagine that community created content is on a cash shop and IMC gives a share of the sales of such items tp their creators. Now let’s imagine that a player buy such a item and resell it in the in-game market for game currency. What the creator gains from it? Nothing? And why would buy a item in community market if you can buy it with in-game currency? Would you keep the most wanted items unavailable for to purchase with in-game currency? So what is the point of having such a thing in the first place?

ToS will have a in-game economy to think about, you can’t compare it with mobas or Counter Strike, a different aproach is required.

You can trade items in Dota2 and CS:GO and these items drop inside of the games through RNG chance on approved servers (I believe?).

Also for cash-shop items to exist in the in-game market, someone has to buy them first, so it’s still a sale.

as far as I know, you can drop itens, at least I have like 624 dota items and I’m pretty sure 70% I didn’t spent a cent on.

what makes me remember that Granado Espada uses the same system as Tera does, players can buy cash shop stuff and sell them at the broker, and that makes me think that they’ll use the same approach. Rather doing like GW2 does with it’s cash shop.

Regardless of whether it’s to be done through Steam workshop or some other format, this isn’t exactly a bad idea but there are currently several problems that IMC would have to deal with.

1. Quality control
The developers and/or management team for these matters would have to personally go through all of these, discuss it with the other teams and then give an adequate response to the artist. If the response is dumbed down to ‘yes or no’, then people might just keep sending these, even if it’s limited, to show off their work.
Between copyright laws, content approval, price planning and other large factors, this is just a lot of additional work.
Keeping the design of such items internal would leave it much easier to manage and oversee.
There is no guarantee of consistent items since there MUST be a filter for quality and IMC may not be able to handle it.
(and in fact it will most likely require a LOT more work to maintain this given that it must be a persistent system)

2. This is bad for business.
They could just as easily take ideas, give it to their development team and do it without the artist being a third party.
They could easily recreate any idea and have it properly handled within the team, minimal stress involved.
(and yes, they would just make more, period)
It would be faster without the need to go through as a second batch of content to be overseen.

3. Unfortunately, DotA is backed by VALVE of all people.
Valve doesn’t just publish it, they -develop- it.
(also the developers of Steam and are able to easily manage the workshop)
I doubt IMC has the same kind of manpower Valve possesses to deal with this efficiently.
Not the best example, even if there are some.
DotA2 is basically VALVE PRESENTS Steam:TheMOBA.
Developed, published, managed and curated by Valve.
Valve is a giant and DotA2 is a high-demand E-sports title with deep history.
IMC is developing a niche title for an older genre.

4. Complaints
Artists who maintain any rights to the intellectual property being sold can abuse it.
While this is easily handled with the proper documents, I don’t believe this to be a real issue.
It is still worth mentioning that this is a known and historically common problem with having random people supply content. Sort of like a guild that is managed too heavily by its members rather than its management.

5. The reason to have pay to win things in the game shop doesn’t disappear.
The reason has always been because it SELLS.
I’m not quite sure how steam workshop will stop that, exactly.
The choice to not have P2W content is not immediately/directly affected by allowing people to create their own content for the game. (regardless of whether it is well maintained or not)

6. Price control
If players are allowed to determine prices without intervention, a higher-popularity workshop item than the in-game items with a lower price may damage IMC’s gains. (other possible ways to abuse this exist)
(moderation/intervention will likely occur regardless given the number of ways to, as we say, “fuck this over”.)


Alternatives.

Artist contribution.
I do think this is great, but let’s leave it at them giving suggestions and letting the team pick from it, rather than having to deal with sent requests and petitions.
Given how much work is involved in adapting what an artist wants to what the developer/publishers intend, it might be better to simply provide the idea and allow IMC to use it how they will.

Less P2W
Believe it or not, the best thing we can do to encourage this is simply to maintain the stance that we won’t accept P2W as a standard in the game. (the methods vary on the situation at hand, but in the end, it isn’t we who decide this)
The most we can do is ensure that there is a proper community agreement against P2W and that we would stand for it.



In conclusion, I have to say… I disagree.
This is not at all a smart decision community and/or business-wise.
Between the arguments over price, quality, profits, moderation and the like, I imagine this has even more problems than those I’ve brought up.
Using DotA2 is a terrible comparison, really.
They’re run by a huge developer that also happens to be a huge publisher that also happens to be one of the most… ideal sellers. They live through MASSIVE sales as opposed to large profits from any single item.
They give to players and take small amounts. (by comparison)
The way they profit off this is through the frequency of sales. (this is Valve we’re talking about)

TL;DR. Can’t compare dota2. Too many problems. Must be better ways.

4 Likes

@Shiro Your post appeared before my post which it was a reply to? What is this madness? I think time is going all wibbly wobbly…

And now it’s gone? Whaaat?

@LaScoot A well-developed and insightful post. I think you hit the nail on the head here. Essentially, it’s a good idea in a perfect world, yet it’s not likely worth the manpower on IMC’s part to bring it to fruition because of all the roadblocks and potential pitfalls that exist. It’s probably just faster and simpler for IMC to develop content themselves. I do agree that player input and letting players suggest ideas/concepts is a good idea though.

@Shiro

You can have the cosmetic items bought on the shop to be bound to that account is another option, but I doubt that will happen. Either way a sale is a sale

@Skendya

We’ll just have to wait and see I guess! :slight_smile:

@Lobcat

Ooh interesting, I guess that could be another approach.

Forum code can’t handle my speed.

2 Likes

Gotta go fast! :smile: