Tree of Savior Forum

So when is Dps Swordies getting fixed?

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#1

Pretty sure quite anumber has left or rerolled to another class…

Been seeing some Swordies changes here n there eg Concentration, Hitbox enlargement, Extra 30% atk from Strength etc…
Sometimes looking at these changes makes me wonder if IMC actually plays Swordies before deciding on what and where to buff.

First things first, before even talking about Damage.

The very Process of landing a skill on mobs izznt exactly straight forward.

  1. Gather mob
  2. Ensure they r packed closer
  3. Apply Debuff or Proceed to do ur Damage skills
  4. Cycle ur skills

1 and 2 are pretty much no brainer, but when it comes to 3. problems start to arise.

-frequently in dungeons mobs will juz CC u leaving u not doing anything
-endure doesnt really work well as u still get Sleep/Silence/Frozen
-ridiculously Small Aoe comparing with Archer n Wizards

So if u get CCed, the rest of the Ranged Dps will still be happily firing off their skills
Your contribution to dmg 0 to low

Assuming no CCs involved and all ur combos applied successfully
Chances r your dmg will still be minimal due to
-time required to position yourself, aim, debuff, skill
-poor skill animation requiring you to be rooted and esp after skill whereby u get stuck for 1 or 2s resulting in Shorter time to utilize ur debuff and Slower skill rotation
-small aoe
-debuff resisted
-Ghost type
-Armor type

With these said, in Summary it seems like some Player’s skills are required for Good Positioning, Aiming of skills and Luck for debuff to work & Crits to happen. There will also be damage penalty or increment dependant on mob type.
Damage effiency is definitely lower compared to other Dps trees.

For the Amount of Effort, Luck and many Factors listed above involved, the dmg contribution is usually still lower…? Why is it Designed this way…?

Before ppl starts commenting how much Hp Swordies naturally has, i’ll break it down for u :

  1. Archers can easily shoot from distance apart from SR which u will still be moving
  2. Wizards, Quick cast throw all spells n move around, most builds only require Int and Con vs P.atk class which typically requires Strength Dex Con
  3. All classes can wear Plate/Cloth to enjoy the same damage reductions
  4. Swordies are Melee thus more than often trading blows
  5. Many CCs and current mob mechanics are Anti-Melee (where are the Anti-Range or Anti-Magic mobs?)

Skill damage

Not much to discuss here as it is as clear as the day.
We all know Swordies (apart from HL) deserves a bigger number or some form of % scaling as well as longer debuff duration and lower chance to resist it.
Some skills should have lower cooldown and more overheats too.
We have no OP buffs like Quick Cast +50% dmg boost nor Running shot -add 270% atk for 27s
Debuffs only hits 1-3 targets and by chance
Currently, it feels like a Melee Rogue with more HP, no dmg/cc mitigation with poor skill animation n dps…

The very Core issue and what most Swordies would like now is probably some form of guard against CC. Endure Pain is just not sufficient for us to dish out the combos.

I believe the General Gameplay for Swordies needs to be relooked into with more focus than just giving small dmg buffs here and there which doesnt help…
30% additional Atk from Str makes near zero difference btw.

I hope IMC will fix this fast as more and more players are leaving…

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#2

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#3

heres the problem of balancing really.

swordsman dps is actually really good, no need for a buff
but the problem is the other classes

#wizards

wizard can go full con effectively taking over swordsmans job, and still have good dmg without having to put pints in a specific stat to be able to hit stuff.

swordsman has good dmg (less than wiz) , but no aoe and ect.

so wizards usually have just as much hp, usually much higher hp (due to swordies having to put dex) and can do dmg, pus theyre ranged, have perma cc, and op aoe.

we can basically elimiate swords from the game but noone would care bcuz we have wizard to tank for for us and do more dmg than swordsman.

#solving this problem

  • severely nerf con on wizards

and/or

  • lower base dmg on wizards

this will make it so they no longer can tank better than swordman, but they will still have more dmg/aoe/cc than swordsman.

#archers

imo archer is the #1 most broken class in this game atm if u dont dig deep.
even though they cant go full con, their dmg is no joke plus theyre ranged.

archer is able to 1 shot on 90% of their skills, but they need dex, and their con scales badly . the fact that they need dex and the fact that con scales badly for them does not remove the fast that hey 1 shot, and theyre ranged.

compared to swordsman theyre pretty balanced, but still need nerf.

#solving

  • heavily decrease base dmg

-increase con scaling

#cleric

possibly the most balanced class in the game, but lol, that doesnt mean much due to how all the other classes are severely unbalanced.

cleric really has no problems other than both of its r4 classes being absolutely useless and buggy.

cleric has healing and decent con scaling, this section will be the longest due to cleric having different types of classes (support, melee, magic, physical) so im gonna break it into 2 parts.

#physical clerics
this includes monk and paladin, and to some degree dievdirbys

cleric has heals and good con scaling to match with swordsman in survivability.
the damage is good for these 3 classes.

some may see monk as underpowered for the same reason they see swordsman as being underpowered.

im not gonna get into paladin and diev due to them being support.

#magical clerics
im not gonna include the support clerics in here, so no dievdirvby, also not gonna include invul unless its on a dps class.

magc clerics can heal, but they cant dps as much as wizard, they used to dps better than wizard. wizards pretty much repace magic clerics other than heals( which wizards can now heal too), their support is betetr, their damage is better, they can survive and heal due to high con and pots ( and can now party heal ) and can cc.
most of cleric magic attacks arent targeted so u have to rely on them runnign into an area or you have to get in melee range to use a (fake)aoe skill.

only nerf they may need is a heal or con nerf so they can no longer tank, but because there are physical builds w/o int that may have trouble healing, this may be hard.

#solution

most clerics cant go full con due to base dmg, so to balance magic clerics out with wizards u need to increase clerics base dmg.

#swordsman

dmg already decent. but underpowered due to not being able to go full con like wizards.

sooo.

#solution

  • increase con scaling heavily

with wizard con scaling nerfed and sword con scaling buffed, swordsmane will be able to tank, and wizards wont outdps them as much (they still will outdps swordsmen)

with these fixes i have come up with here what i thik may happen:

-archer can no longer one shot, but have much higher health

  • because they have to put in dex, its ok for them to have high health just as wizards have now.
  • wizard can no longer one shot without int, health is severly lowered (no compensation bcuz this is how it shoulve been in the first place) cc left untouched
  • swordsman con buffed to help with tanking
  • cleric dps capability increased slightly to be similar to wizard, con scaling slightly nerfed

it wasnt about buffing swordsman, it is about nerfing other classes

you guys are so caught up in swordsman being super underpowered compared to wiz and archer , that yall forget how op archer and wizard is in the first place. buffing sword to match archer and wiz will create another op class with high survivabilty and dmg.

pretty much imc needs to nerf wizard, wizards can play swordsman role better than they can, and can do more dmg. wizards play clerics role and can do more dmg. they can also take over archers role, but can cc

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#4

2 things, heal + safety zone. any cleric c2 is more useful than swordsman, no matter the build.
Clerics are OP, not balanced.
and did u see R8 clerics? Clerics have cyclone now dude, the “best” skill of swordsman tree
god, its even better than cyclone, they can just use it and go cast their other skills

or the damaging charm one, doing 50000x hits to everything, while swordsman have shity AoE

actually i droped my swordsman when i saw clerics R8

#5

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#6

50k hp + higher hp regen or some kind of life steal or self healing skill
but dmg would still suck =/

#7

dude swordman need both 3 dex con and str to do any damage but other classs could focus on one stats or 2 stats. my build is pretty bad tho i spend points on 3 stats evenly. that is the best way i can do to survive both pvp and pve

#8

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#9

Problem is more complicated than just damage

Like you said, swordman damage is ok. I would like to say that ok is relative to game content, which means swordman can kill mobs and people with a fair amount of skills/attacks.

Wizards damage is not only over the top (use much less skills comparing to swordman) but wizard skills are mostly deployment, which means they have the mobility to drop skills then lure mobs into it. Swordman cannot do that, while suffering from the bad hit box and low AoE ratio. However, we can increase swordman numbers to be a bit more in line with wizards. The PvP problem comes from the CC of Sleep which all wizards have access to. I mean DPS wizard should NOT have that superb CC, CC wizard already do not have superb damage so it’s fine. Maybe nerf sleep a bit more would be nice for PvP

Archers are fine PvE wise, but tick damage is ridiculous in PvP because players HP is much less than mobs HP (I mean 10-30k vs 160k). So archer only need some damage tuning in PvP (like the one gravity pole received, of course no need to be that low) and it should be fine. Archers mechanic is actually pretty good for PvP

Clerics are much more balanced offensive-wise, but defensive-wise, they are pretty much invincible with heal + safety zone. So a tweak for safety zone (disable attribute in PvP for example) would be enough.

General direction for swordman: more AoE, bigger hit box, lower cooldown. No need for hard damage increase, but a more fluid game play.

But I’ll tell you what, it took IMC 6 months to acknowledge that swordman has problem, and 3 more months to fix. If you want more changes, wait another 9 months

#10

Party Instance bug still not on the list of known bugs lol.

So probably any kind of balancing won’t be for another year when they release all 10 ranks.

#11

… i really don’t like the idea of nerfing other classes just to make them equal with swords… as that would just make them cry and ask for buffs as what are swords are doing right now.

the better solution is to give swords a balanced % scaling on buffs that can make them at least deal half or 3/4 of other classes’s DPS.

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#12

sorry for my English but i miss ragnarok so:
remove all cc of wizard and archer, make wiz become true aoe damge dealer and archer become a glasscanon, just hold their position and do dps
i dont care how they do their leveling
IMC love cleric, made them imbalance because of skills and damge scaling so just nerf them badly in pvp
no matter how strong they buff swordsman, this game still unbalance come from a fckng shtt trrbl* s*ck mechanic

#13

just delete swordsman tree so we can have no more threads about this every hour

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#14

I don’t know. It seems to me the biggest problem with warriors is once you have the pelt1 in your group, you’ve covered the pulling and the exp bonus. Which is pretty much the only purpose of ever bringing a swordsman.

I don’t think the dps itself is a problem so much as the game mechanics working against melee characters.

Warriors would immediately benefit if any of these changes were made:

-swashbuckling becomes a swordsman circle one skill, OR several other classes get a taunt ability just as effective.
-Skills scale by percentage instead of being flat damage
-skills and basic attacks have a much bigger hit box, about 180 degrees in front and at least 3 players long (imagine 3 players standing shoulder to shoulder in front of your character)
-mobility increase, particularly the ability to attack and move with basic attacks and many more gap closer skills
-a proper secondary function.

Now the last one is most important because if you have all four classes in a group and need a fifth, ANY class is a better choice than a warrior because: Archers deal ridiculous damage, both aoe and single target. Wizards have stupid OP utility i.e. linkers, chronos, cryos. And an extra Cleric2 gives more healing tiles, even a cleric1 gives more tiles an that’s not even mentioning the extra functionality the majority of other cleric classes give allowing for almost any build to be effective.

#15

Heh, that would legitimately make it worse, as we would have angry threads about swordsman posted every minute.

#16

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#17

I’m still curious on doppel 3. Level 15 cyclone and the new AoE skill looks like a wide hitbox.

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#18

u wot m8? //20characters