So I'm leveling a DPS swordsman in anticipation of some sweet buffs next patch

[thailehuy]

Chronomancers are 1 of many classes, you’re talking a skill specific to 1 class vs a global trait of all swordsmen, in the context of them reaching a mob. Wtf. This isn’t a problem either as the bottom line is reaching the mob, you don’t care if a Chronomancer provides this effect as it doesn’t hurt what you are trying to do, which is get to the mob. It’s not a matter of “Ah well everyone else can move fast” its “There is a ranged mob, ranged characters can shoot it, and as a swordsman you can use sprint to quickly reach the mob” which means your time between when you hit the mob and when they shot the arrow isn’t large.

Not sure how I can put this, because it isn’t just number.

Dash, while nice, is not that good once you use it. It has a start animation and a stop animation, which is quite bad. You cannot do anything while dashing, and any damage will cancel it (not to mention a bug when anyone come into screen making it flicker will also cancel dash). So if you boil it down to speed and reach, it’s basically Trot vs Haste.[quote=“Delcas, post:80, topic:300434”]
Swordsmen can invest however much CON they want, I just deem it unnecessary to heavily invest in CON (whereas others do not) because with so much health given to the class inherently, it simply registers as less CON required.Not because we don’t have the luxury its just pointless.
[/quote]

You cannot go full CON, simple as that. At the very least you need a few dozens DEX so that you won’t miss, both PvE and PvP

Then you need some STR if you want to actually do any damage at all.

Full/High CON is a luxury, since you need to rely on your party for everything else. Unlike wizard who can do that on their own.

[Delcas]

You can cancel your sprint into the skill of your choice and jump out of it.
Again Haste doesn’t invalidate anything.
When you talk about Ranged vs Melee the benefit is ranged hitting a target before melee, and be out of range of melee attacks. When your movement speed (however acquired) gets you to or from a target faster, this reduces the significance of this difference. The existence of haste does absolutely nothing to this discussion other then give another alternative for melee to reach their targets faster.

You don’t require Dex for PvE accuracy.
Enemies evasion is literally their level + their Dex, just as ours is, except we also have gear that provides accuracy including 1 dedicated slot in gloves. Gloves which give increasingly more accuracy with their ilevel, and are only a problem if you try to use cloth gloves since their accuracy state becomes replaced with Magic amplification early into the game.
Our Accuracy is also our level + dex before gear.
The main exception to this rule is skills that reduce accuracy or increase evasion such as Aukuras or “evasion” from a Rogue which some mobs possess.
This is of course also ignoring moves that decrease enemy evasion like Monstrance.

STR while of course is the damage stat its relative significance is reduced with each upgrade of your weapon, offensive buffs you obtain (such as Warcry,Frenzy and Gung-Ho).
The game gives you a point of physical attack for each level and you have the base weapon of your damage, in addition is the base damage of your skills.

There’s no Luxury, you can go Full CON its just a stupid decision not because the game prevents you in any way from doing so, but because you don’t need that much CON.
If you have 50k health but your health in between each next set of heals only goes down to 30k, then you have excess health that has been doing nothing for you, because you’re only losing 20k health between Heals. You can decrease your health to 40, 30 or 25k and you’d still be alive with the difference that you can use those newly freed stats up to be more efficient.

Again it has nothing to do about being a luxury, Its just wasteful to invest in when the content can’t kill you.
Just like if you have 100% crit rate, 100% accuracy and 80% evasion then all the Dex on top of that is wasted because you’re not using it.

but this is such a silly discussion when neither you nor I believes in going Full CON. The reasons why we feel that way are insignificant when the end result is the same.

[thailehuy]

You can cancel your sprint into the skill of your choice and jump out of it.

You cannot aim properly while dashing. If you jump, you waste the time of the jump, which offset the time you save by dashing[quote=“Delcas, post:82, topic:300434”]
You don’t require Dex for PvE accuracy.Enemies evasion is literally their level + their Dex, just as ours is, except we also have gear that provides accuracy including 1 dedicated slot in gloves. Gloves which give increasingly more accuracy with their ilevel, and are only a problem if you try to use cloth gloves since their accuracy state becomes replaced with Magic amplification early into the game.Our Accuracy is also our level + dex before gear.The main exception to this rule is skills that reduce accuracy or increase evasion such as Aukuras or “evasion” from a Rogue which some mobs possess.This is of course also ignoring moves that decrease enemy evasion like Monstrance.
[/quote]Trust me, you do need DEX for PvE, not a whole lot, but with 50-60 DEX and level 170 glove, I still miss some at level 220+ maps

STR while of course is the damage stat its relative significance is reduced with each upgrade of your weapon, offensive buffs you obtain (such as Warcry,Frenzy and Gung-Ho).The game gives you a point of physical attack for each level and you have the base weapon of your damage, in addition is the base damage of your skills.

While that is true, which is sad, there’s almost no other way for a swordman to gain attacking power, and the base power isn’t enough.

There’s no Luxury, you can go Full CON its just a stupid decision not because the game prevents you in any way from doing so, but because you don’t need that much CON. If you have 50k health but your health in between each next set of heals only goes down to 30k, then you have excess health that has been doing nothing for you, because you’re only losing 20k health between Heals. You can decrease your health to 40, 30 or 25k and you’d still be alive with the difference that you can use those newly freed stats up to be more efficient.

Now if you have a dedicated healer, that is true. If you don’t, you would prefer to kill faster than to be a meatbag. And you know how people feel about partying a non-pelt swordman.

It is a luxury to have a dedicated healer, thus a luxury to go full CON.

Yes this is all pointless discussion since we both agree that swordmen need change. But whatever, just make as much noise as possible until IMC does something.

[aripck]

L2P
Why do you even take highlander when you know that without peltasta you are useless.
Sword -> pelta2 then take anything that unlocks at certain rank.
Skills don’t scale well(dmg wise) so all you want from early ranks is utility especially as a swordsman.

And remember even if they buff swordsman classes dmg x 10 it won’t really change anything, you are still fighting face to face, still getting all the dmg/debuffs/cc and you are still a ■■■■ against magic dmg, this game just isn’t designed for swordsmen.

You seem pretty casual so make an archer or a wizard and enjoy the game.

Please don’t be a swordsman we don’t need noob swordsmen, any party for
dungeon or a mission is a disaster with two or more swordsmen.
Just take cleric c2 and anything you want.

[tsigetartseht]

Sure you can use your sprint to get close to the target but the enemy is already away from the spot where your skill lands by the time that happens

Not only that, archers and wizards have gap makers:

Full draw and Energy Blast. While we as swordsman have little to no gap closers.

There is long stride but it is restricted to spears and doesn’t seem to even have a proper aim mechanic like auto-lock or something like that.

While there is iron hook, it takes a decent amount of time and aim to actually land it.

Keel hauling barely makes a difference as well because they can immediately jump away before we can even land skills properly on the enemy. Thus, effectively making Iron hook simply a root skill that must be used in point-blank. There’s bleeding from Keel but no point in that if the enemy is full CON.

As for your cleric issues, technically it is balanced because our downtimes are much worse when the enemy hits hard compared to clerics. Sure we can avoid an attack or two but if you think about it, clerics have the ability to stay in the fight as long as the DPS does not outright overcome their heal rate and there’s safety zone as well

While we Swordsman struggle to keep up fighting because potions are barely able to keep us in the fight and we are dreaded by the need to sit on bonfires just so we could get ourselves in shape for the next fight.

To add to that, Clerics can dish out the same or even greater DPS than swordsman with the correct build

Many people say that Paladins are bad but some don’t seem to know that Smite scales with STR and that it deals 200% damage on demonic types.

There’s also Krivis for them that allows dishing out of superb magical DPS that scales properly with INT. Even most swordsmans’ skill rotation in full or 3/4 dished out on an enemy barely compares to the total damage dealt by a properly stated Krivis’ Zaibas.

To add to that, there’s the synergy between having Diev and Druid. Chortasmata turns enemies into plant types and Carve attack deals 200% damage on Plant and Insect types. This build also has Carnivory that deals a plenty amount of decent DPS as well. Arguably, you can take into consideration the existence of Flying mobs but sadly, there’s barely even strong flying enemies on the range between 210 - 280 which is the core part of our current end-game content right now.

The state of the game right now favors magic damage by a whole lot which in turn, physical dps pales except for archer that got a full load of ultra buffs since January 2016.

[Artreides]

Somebody also seems to be forgetting that a Wizard can go full CON and still have higher DPS than any dedicated DPS Swordsman. Blame Animus for that.

Why do you even take highlander when you know that without peltasta you are useless. Sword -> pelta2 then take anything that unlocks at certain rank.

And this is the problem. Not everyone wants to be Peltasta. You can’t force players classes that they do not want to play. Where’s the freedom of choice in that, which seems to be what TOS is so proud of.

EDIT : Like me. I don’t like no fooking shields. I want my two handed sword. I already played Peltasta (already had it until 229) and it was boring as hell for me. So I decided to create another swordsman and I will build this the way I wanted it to be. Fook the meta.

[joaoalmeidarx]

Animus just need to be deleted or nerfed to the ground, it’s too much OP for a item.

The root of all problems is that Wizards can go full CON, this game will only be balanced when all classes have to choose about 2 or more stats like swords

[tsigetartseht]

Fook the meta.

Yeah, the meta is evil in this game m8

Furthermore, it seems lots of people don’t understand the proper balance in MMORPG and wants to stick with the bias on their so called Ele3 and Fletcher3

[Nukas]

on my rogue

Archers get bonus accuracy based on character level.

[vicente_mimica]

Swordman isn’t meant to be a DPS… Neither Clerics. You want DPS, build an Archer or a Wizard.

[IMCisGreedy]

give swordsman magic skills so they can use animus too

magic bladerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Artreides]

Yet about 70% of the classes in swordsman tree are DPS. FOH

[tsigetartseht]

If you studied the class structure of this game carefully then did you think it was intended for swordsmen to only tank?

What was the last game that you played wherein melee were only tanks and cannot become glass nukes?

Do yourself a favor and play any of the Tales series.

@IMCisGreedy I would jump leaps of joy should IMC decide to add a Rune Knight or a Spellsword

[Artreides]

or a Crusader. Gib it holy attack

But what I am seriously hoping for is. Samurai. Geezus I’d make it my main in an instant.

[tsigetartseht]

Samurai

Or that

• IMC releases Haori Hakama / Kinagashi costume

I’m gonna insta-buy it if that happens

[haukinyau]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Artreides]

• Weapon skin. I want katana

[tsigetartseht]

or maybe an upgrade so can close-gap like a zealot?

My life for Aiur!
Blizzard has done a magnificent job in giving Zealots the ability to charge with their lives on the line
It’s quite effective too

[haukinyau]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[tsigetartseht]

Of course cause Medivacs are tier 3 and zealots are just tier 1 so they lose in that combo xD