Tree of Savior Forum

So Crit Attack is useless?

80% critrate 100 PA = 150 damage 80% of the time, 100 damage 20% of the time. 200 CA = 0 damage 20% of the time. PA on average is 140 damage while CA on average is 160 damage. So even with crit rate cap, having twice as much critical attack as physical attack isn’t actually twice as much.

But wait, there’s more! Let’s say you’re using a skill with just 15% damage boost from enhancement attribute. That 140 damage becomes 161, while your 160 average crit attack damage is still 160. At 50% damage from attributes (which really you should have at least if you’re somehow crit capped), you’re looking at 210 damage vs. 160 on average, so physical attack soundly pulls ahead with even a middling investment in attributes.

Now let’s say you’re using a skill that has an inherent multiplier. Skyliner, for instance - it does 300% damage on bleeding targets, so a 100 physical attack bonus at 80% crit rate for an average of 140 bonus damage is actually 420 bonus damage on average, while crit attack still sits at a pitiful 160. Again, add in attributes and it gets even worse.

So in fact yes, I would say 200 crit attack is worse than 100 physical attack in basically every situation, and much worse in many situations when dealing with modifiers or just high level attributes.

@Xanthiris

I don’t think anyone is saying crit attack is an inherently shitty stat, it’s just that as it stands now its availability means you will never ever have a build that relies on crit attack. I can only imagine such a build would involve high DEX and lots of multihit skills to really take advantage of the flat, modifier-free nature of crit attack. But the fact that your biggest source of crit attack by far is STR means that a high DEX build is already at odds with that kind of philosophy. Crit attack is simply massively overvalued on equipment and on the stat screen, it is not a .6 : 1 ratio when you factor in very common modifiers, it’s actually a much much less valuable stat than that.

1 : 0.6 is about accurate, can you prove otherwise?

Did you try maybe reading the simple math in my post?

Modifiers like the 300% on Skyliner, or any modifier, is applied after the base damage formula, 200 CA would be boosted to 600 CA.
It’s also affected by attribute enhancement.

I was wrong about Skyliner it actually does apply before CA, but it is one of very few abilities that work like that.

[[(ATK+ATKSKILL+AMP)×T0−((DEF−DEFDEBUFF)×LVPENALTY+RESELEM)]×CRIT+CRITATK+ATKELEM+ATKTYPE]×T1×T2×T3×ENHANCE+BONUS

Is the damage formula.

Very few multipliers are considered T0, but yes, your example is one of them.

As are cannon and musket skills, and split arrow, and the straight up attack multipliers of running shot and deeds of valor. So basically every single physical DPS class with the exception of Fletcher will be getting a large amount of damage from modifiers that multiply attack and not crit attack, especially QS->Wugushi since poison can’t even crit.

And again, the biggest problem is still availability of crit attack and how overvalued it is ingame, as evidenced by stats on headgear.

All of those abilities you listed affect crit attack.

ie. All of those abilities are considered T1 in that equation.

It’s still good as a 3rd stat (compared to the rest) when wanting to boost DPS on headgears but not much for other gear slots where there’s a pAtk, %Atk and/or stat boosting alternative. In most cases for non-magic DPS builds, pAtk (general use) and elemental (multihit AA-ing) is most preferred on headgears.

Source? The CBT damage formula thread that doesn’t even list most of those skills because they didn’t exist or were reworked? Split arrow is a T0 modifier and has been since beta, it’s the reason Scout3 is a strong class. Musket T0 modifiers are why musketeers in kToS are able to hit the damage cap with snipe.

Being a T1 modifier would make the ability stronger than T0.

The point is they also boost PA as well. There is no ability that does not boost PA.

Unless you can achieve 100% crit chance, PA will always be stronger.

Better keep up your watch then, because the crit rate multiplier is 42/level. At level 280 it is 0.15, so 560 crit rate give 560 * 0.15 = 84% crit chance, IF your target has 0 crit resistance.

Any target at level 280 will have 100-150 crit resistance, so that number is going down real fast.

T0 = Ability does damage vs target that is X
T1 = Skill Modifiers
T2 = Damage Type Modifier (Pierce vs Leather, Fire vs Ice, etc.)
T3 = Debuff Modifier (Strike vs Lethargy, Cleave vs Stunned, etc.)

A modifier that increases damage after defense reduces it is stronger than a modifier that increases damage before defense? Tell that to level 280+ enemies.

This is conflicting as hell. The only thing separating Skyliner and Cleave is that you decided to phrase the description of what they do differently.

Actually enhance attribute would apply after the crit attack/element bonuses are added. Outside of T0 all other modifiers will affect the number after crit attack too.

Also, Skyliner is either 200% per hit or 400% total (2 hits) on bleeding target, not 300%, unless there’s been a nerf/buff to it.