Tree of Savior Forum

SO... CRAZY IDEA TIME for H.C. Friends!

General Discussion
#8

There is only two things in ToS that really kill you.
Things you cannot plan for and you trying to kill yourself.

So, basically you lag and die. 9/10 times.
The 1/10 would be the one group that goes to some dungeon beyond the abilities without preparation.
The 0/10 (under 1% of the likely cases) will be people who died for all meaningful reasons.

You’ll need to go research the full aspects of permadeath and come back with a detailed explanation of what functions are required, problematic or irrelevant to the concept.

p.s. Unlike the others, I don’t actually disagree with permadeath, ToS simply isn’t suited to it.
A perma-death-like function in an open-world (stretching the term) MMO has always been a curious topic.

#9

I will do some research and make a detailed post on what I think the positive and negatives could be tomorrow. For now I will just say I don’t think this is something that ToS needs but that if some people want perma death. You could literally add nothing other than an icon next to that players name that lets everyone know he is perma death? Then just have the person be in the same game world as everyone else and just when they die they are done on that character. This would give those who do want it just because they like the idea of one dead and done what they want without having to add to much. You would’t even need the icon.

Also yes ToS is not Path of Exile or Diablo. It taking longer to level does not necessarily make it unsuitable for perma death. It just makes the penalty for death much more annoying as it takes much longer to reroll and get back to where you where if your in any decent amount.

As for sapping the fun I do not want the whole game to be like this. I want it to be like this if you want it to be and have it only affect the character you made and selected the option. No one else would even have to know but you and I suppose maybe your guild if you join a guild of others who want to do such a thing.

#10

Hopefully the lag issue will be solved by release so then it will only be the occasional random cases that any games have of this.

Also how much do we know of the endgame difficulty? I have only followed the iCBT and people were capped a lot lower than max levels are going to be from what I understand so maybe later on things become much more difficult and if lag is not an issue at release then game knowledge, teamwork, and skill will be deciding those who can and cant make it farther.

#11

This is a problem, even if you don’t understand it. You need to dig into how other games make it work.
For one, these players will be shunned by normal players because they are technically flawed.
If you can’t be revived, you are instantly weaker as a teammate. (among other things)

“Do it just because you like the idea” sounds fine, but I’ll say it again, you’re lacking a lot of details here.
If you really think that it has no influence on regular players, then do rethink that, it can if allowed.
If it’s as vague as “he should be able to do it because he wants to, not about other players”… I’ll assume you can see the issue(s).

#12

No I do see those issues I was going to touch them after my research of games if any that have tried such a system. The only real answer to not mess up how this would work with others is to have your own servers or channels you are in. Which I do know causes more work and all that and by no means to I just think oh it must be a feature. I will try to round out all sides of thought once I have the time to go through.

More so problems with such abilities such as revive will require balancing in a hardcore channel or whatever it would be since its supposed to be HC so a skill like that would need attention such as you must revive within a time period…or your body remains there for 5 minutes and if you are not revived then it is gone and you can not be.

#13

However this would be implemented if it was cannot negatively affect those who play the game normally.

1 Like
#14

People would just roll logout macros with their “hardcore” characters, so there’s no point really.

#15

This concept of death works for solo play focused games, since those are much more about self-absorption and personal challenges than playing in a community/group environment (years of diablo2 hardcore and some poe hardcore).

I admire your devotion to the style and intent to diversify, but MMOs have to be apart from this, it has branches and ramifications that dont sit well with the genre and what it aims for, perhaps in a few months/years you’ll be able to see this in a bigger picture to better understand how/why it has no place in a game/genre that was not designed/conceptualized for this type of gameplay.

#16

The reason D2 or PoE has hardcore mode is that the game focus solo play and late game contents where you can reach within a few days.

PoE for example, you can reach high end level in 1 week and cap it less than 1 month. When you die, you won’t lose your character, it will be moved to a from Hardcore League to Standard League.

It just won’t work for ToS, this game require a lot investment in your character, it might take months. And to this far, there absolutely zero encouragement for you to remake a new character.

I don’t think anyone willing to waste their life time just to die by a stupid reason and got nothing out of it.

#17

Mid-high death penalty, increased by levels. Perma death will not work on ToS current mechanic.

#18

Best idea ever ! IMC has to do something like this… the players who do this optional thing can get a special effect or aura around them and skills… It would also be nice to allow a ton of customization for this stuff, to make HC players feel more unique and appreciated for playing. Also 2x exp to a new HC family member for players who die past 1k hrs and their family name recorded in a hall of fame. This doesn’t stack though, and is only applied to 1 new family member, this will let HC players continue aiming towards cap after death.

The bonuses are necessary to make players have a reason to do it, since normally in games a HC mode would mean normal people would have to dedicate their lives to the game, and ultimately support it to the max. Having some sort of gratification and a reason to not give up will allow the HC gaming community to develop in this game. While also tightening up the community and allowing ToS to prosper for people who want to really become a legendary hero figure in a game.

Although, players should have a 1 chance option to turn it all off each 100 lvls since they may change their minds or want to have fun without the risk of losing the character forever, and the content usually gets harder to make veterans stick around further into games.

#19

Please refer to this topic regarding perma death, pretty much everything to be discussed here is already in there.

#20

Sounds like a terrible idea. But if it’s optional, I could care less. 350 levels and gearing up is no simple easy task, and I definitely don’t want to fight some of the more difficult bosses twice, such as Rexipher.

#21

Perma death no! Full loot drops on death funny as flux, pvp zones with full look drop on death plus no respawning outside of towns without fast travel sign me up!!

#22

I am still looking for good examples for a big post but since for now more people have posted. If there is a choice why would anyone care. If it did not affect the core game and was just added later as an option for people who wanted it. I am not particularly a huge hard core fan but more diversity in game play options can’t be bad as long as they finish the core game first. I do understand how many issues just by adding perma death can happen. A group hardcore game in an MMO could make a whole new breed of games and what if ToS happened to start that. The concept would not appeal to the majority by any means but for some it would be exactly what they have looked for as I have not found any examples of a perma death game that’s an MMO. I am sure because of all the issues that come with that idea but if its separate from the main experience then why not.

#23

This topic has been already discussed like a hundred times before.
IMO its a NO.
But people will like it.
Diablo is good at it, go for diablo.

#24

Permadeath sounds quite dumb in an online game.

A handful of people will try it. A small handful, and they will dedicate themselves to it, only to be killed after much effort in a boss fight or due to a lagspike.

You guys have seen how boss fights later in the game are right? Some bosses have neigh unavoidable attacks, dying is a VERY common thing.

So unless you dudes make a pocket priest and give yourself auto-ressurection everytime it’s off cooldown, Permadeath will come out as frustrating, unpopular and above all, useless.

Worst part is, I can just tell that if it gets implemented a handful of people will want to head straight into the devs’ inboxes and flood it with requests to reactivate their dead characters because they were killed by silly reasons, not to mention the amount of players that would downright quit the game in frustration after losing their char.

Seriously guys, crazy ideas are fun and all but this is just silly!

#25

So far LaScoot has had some real game play reasons that would need to be figured out before it would work. But truthfully if the only reason is because it doesn’t appeal to you then its invalid as a point as this is all under the assumption it would be its own entity and have its own balancing after the fact of the normal mode. Yeah less people would play this mode and to someone who does not play and perma death it may sound stupid. But the time it takes to level up is not a factor to a player who truly enjoys this as they would accept that they may spend a long time and then die. The tension that causes is a lot of what makes it fun for them. As for them losing there character. Yes it is frustrating but that is why the normal mode is there to play the game and be able to die. This option is for those who accept that it will be frustrating and want the challenge.As for attack being unavoidable then it becomes a thing where you have to scout out and learn bosses and gear very well before attempting to do the harder content. Then its still did I prepare enough and if not do you have the skill to make something that is normally very very hard actually happen. This is what a hardcore more is for to force situations of meaningful decision on whether or not to keep going or prepare more at the risk of having to start from the beginning if you cant be revived or you can be but you dying puts the others who could revive you at risk. If they die then you will not be able to be revived this would put a large focus on healers who could revive and protecting them. It would also make solo play much harder. The norm for a HC mode would be largely different than the normal game play mode.

#26

If they made it optional it would probably be like every other game that does it, and divides them on different servers. I don’t think we want to split our player base more.

#27

Ohhh i didnt realized that this topic was beeing discussed somewhere. Well optional stuff is nice. That aura thing too. I Just thought that would be a nice ideia for someone looking for a challenge…