Well you can still keep alchimist and “scientists-like” classes instead of mages. You would do some bombs with nitroglycerin that would nuke the map with you too, that would delete your character and you’ll have to start a new one. Yeah because with realism, each time your character die you lose everything. So you need one character/pvp. So month of grinding to have a good enough class to lose in one or two pvps!
@Spaghetti @Kurche @thebloodyaugust : So you’re saying, because the game has unrealistic elements, we should abandon realism. Sure. Let’s make characters look like floating eyeballs flapping their legs to stay afloat. No trees, no ground, no speech, no realism whatsoever.
This is basically the same way you’re twisting my words. Just because the game has unrealistic elements like magic/fictional creatures, doesn’t mean that things that are realistic should just go away. The better they combine realism with magic, the better the game gets. In fact, in world of ToS, magic is natural - so it’s realistic.
However, just because there is magic, it doesn’t mean it explains everything automatically. Most of those things are conveniences for the player.
If you throw a spear, it will leave your hand and land on the target or the ground. It won’t magically return to your hand, unless it’s an enchanted one - which most of them are not, if any at all, since there is nothing about that in their description. Same for the shield. If the animation shows it flying like a boomerang, fine. If it doesn’t, is it enchanted? No? How the hell would it return then? The skill itself is a physical one, so it has to abide by the laws of physics. Summoning a magic spear to stab would have been different, but it’s the Swordsman class we’re talking about here - they do not use magic.
The lack of blood is another matter altogether (and Kepas are plants). It’s more about censoring/rating of the game than realism. As for carrying dozens of items, magic does explain that. Ideally, monsters would be only dropping stuff they could actually carry, ears for Vubbes, some leek from Kepas, etc. And you’d have to sell those to actually get the money. That’s another thing that’s not explainable by magic, so it should have been different in my view.
I don’t see a problem with having to pick up your spear/shield anyway, provided the damage is good. If it isn’t, then it’s a balancing problem, but it has absolutely nothing to do with having to pick them up.
Don’t fall down too fast with your slippery slope fallacy. There is such a such as being practical. If they made the characters to look like floating eyeballs flapping their legs to stay afloat along with no trees, ground, or speech, you think there would even be a forum to talk about it? Please explain to me the market for floating eyeball mmos.
Noone is talking about having no realism whatsoever, in fact we are joking about the game being as realistic as our world lol.
And you said it yourself, magic is natural in ToS. We don’t know the “limits” and the actual laws, if any, that magic follows there. If you are fine with people manifesting and dropping meteor on each other and shooting 1 arrow from a bow but 16 comes, how is a spear returning to your hand crossing the line? Why does ToS have to fit in to what you feel is in enchanted or not for this to happen?
And I wanna know where the club and shield disappears to when Monk does double punch.
For explication it can just be a “War God’s blessing” so that swordsmen can continuously fighting their weapons will always come back! ^^
The thing is i wouldn’t have mind if the spear/shield would stay on the floor and would have to be picked up for regaining your 20%atk/def. But the thing is how do you make it if you have a map change between? Why would the weapons return at that time?
The devs made this because it was more convenient for them too. How would you make it if you go out of pvp and then your spear/shield hasn’t return? After winning/losing you get out and would have to go pick it up on the otehr pvp? but what if it’s not the same map since it must be somewhat like instances? Same with pve, if you forget to pick it up and change map, would it still be there since you chnaged map? and have to come back on the map you forgot it to pick it up? That wouldn’t have been good enough for players convenience.
[quote=“Spaghetti, post:43, topic:39936”]
Don’t fall down too fast with your slippery slope fallacy. There is such a such as being practical.
[/quote]Look who’s talking. Thing is, being practical doesn’t interfere with having to pick up something you dropped.
[quote=“Spaghetti, post:43, topic:39936”]
Noone is talking about having no realism whatsoever, in fact we are joking about the game being as realistic as our world lol.[/quote]No, you guys were just saying I shouldn’t talk about realism in a game that has magic. So I didn’t. But hey, it’s automatically a fallacy when I do it, right?
[quote=“Spaghetti, post:43, topic:39936”]
And you said it yourself, magic is natural in ToS. We don’t know the “limits” and the actual laws, if any, that magic follows there. If you are fine with people manifesting and dropping meteor on each other and shooting 1 arrow from a bow but 16 comes, how is a spear returning to your hand crossing the line? Why does ToS have to fit in to what you feel is in enchanted or not for this to happen?
[/quote]The limits are set by the lore. If the lore doesn’t mention it, you have to be able to explain things using existing information. In this case, magic doesn’t cut it. Nor do physical laws. Meteors are explainable by magic. Archers shooting 16 arrows but nocking 1 isn’t, but wait:
[quote=“Soukyuu, post:23, topic:39936”]
Yes, having archers buy actual arrows would be on that list as well.
[/quote]I have already said the archers are currently unrealistic and would have to be changed as well. You can keep finding examples that are unrealistic and not explainable by magic, and I will just keep telling you it’s something that I’d do differently.
I like realism in my games. So when they shave off stuff bit by bit, I don’t like it.
[quote=“Delven, post:44, topic:39936”]
For explication it can just be a “War God’s blessing” so that swordsmen can continuously fighting their weapons will always come back! ^^
[/quote]Yes, but as I said, we need lore for that. Otherwise there is no basis there is such a thing.
[quote=“Delven, post:44, topic:39936”]
But the thing is how do you make it if you have a map change between? Why would the weapons return at that time?The devs made this because it was more convenient for them too. How would you make it if you go out of pvp and then your spear/shield hasn’t return? After winning/losing you get out and would have to go pick it up on the otehr pvp? but what if it’s not the same map since it must be somewhat like instances? Same with pve, if you forget to pick it up and change map, would it still be there since you chnaged map? and have to come back on the map you forgot it to pick it up? That wouldn’t have been good enough for players convenience.
[/quote]Yes, it’s a convenience as I said in the post you replied to. If you change maps, it should obviously stay there until the time runs out. Just like regular drops. I don’t know if PvP force-boots you after a round, but the simple workaround would be not to - let the player pick up their stuff then leave.
I don’t think people should be focusing too much on the realism versus fantasy debate for these skills in particular. It’s a legitimate discussion, but isn’t it like not getting anywhere? 
You’re free to voice your opinions so don’t mind me anyway
I think that while realism was intended in some measure as a design choice, the idea behind you could lose the shield/spear was to push the notion that the game world can be affected by game mechanics and these should feel impactful, which I guess is what any game dev wants. It really is a fun mechanic and it works wonders from an RPG perspective, but only from the singleplayer RPG perspective. At the end of the day, the very online nature of the game doesn’t allow for it though, because of what’s been discussed already that finally led to the removal of said mechanic, which just shows us how capable IMC is of understanding the limits of their own platform.
Relax we were jabbing fun at the realism thing but if it makes you happy heres a more serious answer.
Realism is a poor fit for this games design, even the artwork is opposed to a realism with its cartoony graphics.
That said if u still cant handle infinite arrows and spears showing back up in your hand we can explain it away the same way ever other fantasy game does MAGIC! magic arrows magic spears magic shields now nothing has to make sense all good.
I was just joking around and i think its the same for @Spaghetti neither of us were actually trying to form a argument with our bullshitting earlier.
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I’ve already tried to explain why MAGIC doesn’t necessarily explain it, but eh. @Alkaid is right though, this discussion won’t lead anywhere, so let’s get back on topic.
I repeat, no one said you can’t voice your opinion. No one said you shouldn’t or can’t talk about realism here. We started bs’ing about a realistic ToS based on your suggestions. I’m just thrown off by how some things just have to be real life and others don’t. You want swordies and archers to relate to our world’s physics (even though they’re not in our world) and clerics and wizards to relate to some fantasy world that’s fictional.
Okay here it is
Peltasta can block enemies’ attacks and attack enemies using a shield and it can even provoke monsters by tapping its shield itself. Shield attacks deal a great amount of damages on the enemies that are either in Frozen or Petrified status so it is more effective to collaborate with Creomancer or Elementalist classes.
Peltasta can even throw its shield at its enemies, but if you don’t pick it up soon enough, then the shield may disappear.
http://blog.treeofsavior.com/en/?p=227
You can see in this video Shield lob + Frost Pillar