Tree of Savior Forum

Schwarzer Reiter

Class and Rank
#1

So we had this update:
http://pastebin.com/YtfJduAg
from this topic: Schwarzer Reiter: Major Weapon Changes

Where it says at the end “>All other skills which have not been mentioned can be used both mounted and unmounted, provided you are using compatible weapon type(s).”

Which means that we’ll be able to swap weapons to Bows and use the whole set of skills from Archers (but kneeling shot), Rangers and Fletchers, while mounted
I’m not sure if Pistols as secondary weapons was just a quick fix and a stupid decision, but I’m looking into it.

I think Schwarzer Reiter was just upgraded from a German mid-century gunned cavalry to the Mongolian horse archers, but we should instead walk on a path where they turn into Dragoons (carbine calvary).

Anyway, with those upgrades in mind, I’m thinking
Archer - Ranger 3 - Fletcher - Schwarzer Reiter

I’ll be able to cast the hell out of everything while mounted, just swaping back and forth from my pistol to my bow. What do you guys think? About the class, builds and anything.

#2

Fletcher skills require a 2h bow not a crossbow. It only means you can use skills that can use crossbow and pistol for example while mounted, and only those that aren’t on the list of unusable skills.

#3

I still have the ability to swap weapons.
Can it be done? One set with Crossbow + Pistol, then swapping to 2H Bows.

if no, ok.
if yes, they created a whole new class.

#4

I guess you are right. Then again, wouldn’t you think there would be stronger classes to invest into down the road rather then being hung up on the previous ones?

#5

The problem with the class, as I see is:

They create a gun based class out of the blue on the archer tree. There were never a mention of guns before.
Then the class has 4 skills because it’s the first circle and no skills on any class before applies to it. Furthermore, It’s a mounted class. The class feels like a basic-class, like the 4 we have.
So we have: a instance problem (mounted, unmounted), a weapon problem (bows are guns now) along with skills.
They created a quickfix making pistols subweapons so we can use Crossbows. I’m not even looking into the possibility of swapping to bows. But that make things like Fence + Pistol or even dual pistol possible, which is a plus.

• If we had something like sub-classes, we could make somewhere on the archer tree: Recruit (pistols) -> Musketeer (muskets) OR Schwarzer Reiter (pistol or muskets). Thus making a valid point to upgrading in the future into Cuirassiers or Dragooners.
This way we would have a skill base for gun-based classes and the lore would be on point.

But for now, let’s see what happens on this CBT. This is the only class that -really- interests me and it has a rich lore to work with (doppels and corsais come in mind too), so I’ll work on it as part of my tester job.

#6

Update me on how it goes for you, I’m torn whether to make an SR or a wugushi hunter myself, we’ll see how it goes I guess. I’m kind of leaning towards wugushi hunter, if throwing gu pot would be usable while mounted I’d definitely build an SR instead.

#7

The list says
“Skills which cannot be used whilst mounted:
(…)
Wugushi - Throw Gu Pot, Jincan Gu.”

#8

I know, and that is the reason I can’t make a wugushi into SR. I’m sorry, am I articulating myself unclearly or?

#9

Feel like you guys are looking for something like this. I’ve confirmed 99% of the skills chosen work while mounted.
I have no confirmation about Swift Step.

FYI, there is a stance named BowAndPistol.

#10

I’m not really looking, I make my own builds :mushroom:

Ty for the input though.

#11

With SRs using Crossbow and Pistol now, you can use virtually every skill in the Archer tree except:

  • All of Fletcher’s skills. (However, you can just swap to a 2H Bow with Weapon Swap and you can use them whilst mounted.)
  • Skills which can’t be used whilst mounted. (Dismount and you can use them.)

Unless a buff skill states a required stance, it can be used with any weapon. (This goes for pretty much all buff skills like Swift Step, Steady Aim, Zhendu, etc.)

If a buff skill is present in the list of skills which can’t be used whilst mounted, then you can use it as long as you dismount. (e.g. Cloaking, Burrow, etc.)

Basically, a lot of skills have been opened up for Reiter. For example, you can now use Multi Shot, Limacon, High Anchoring, Flare Shot, Barrage, Retreat Shot, etc. all mounted AND without having to swap weapons at all, as long as you’re using a Crossbow and Pistol.

You can even use all of Fletcher’s skills mounted, but it’ll require swapping to a 2H Bow.

The class has opened up a lot now. :wink:

#12

The problem on that is the inconsistency they build up to:

  • Doppelsoldners were german mercenaries which were mainly known for using Zweihänder to break on Pikemen formations. We see the kind the weapon they use in the game.

  • Corsairs, while I’m not on the privateer discussion, they were basically pirates and they got themed around it in-game.

  • Schwarzer Reiter, quoting from Wikipedia
    “a type of cavalry, which appeared in the armies of Western Europe in the 16th century in place of the outmoded lance-armed knights, at the same time that cuirassiers and dragoons began to attain typological distinction from other kinds of cavalry.”

They never were meant to use Bows. They used swords and pistols at the same time that Carbines/Arquebuses appeared on the european warfare, at the hands of Dragooners and Cuirassiers.

I’m not that kind who want to see historical accuracy to the papper, but when they remove the identity of the class. A german gunned cavalry got changed to a horse archer, they make the whole “Schwarzer Reiter” pointless and useless.

Why the hell would I even bother using a pistol if I can be a AoE mobile machine coming from Rangers and Fletchers? Why there are pistols around if the only class that can use it just received a green alert of “ok, you have a pistol but nah”
And that make valid points to: if musketeers shows up, they’ll be spawning arrow volleys too? If Schwarzer Reiter gets a new class upgrade, like Dragooners and their carbines, what’s the whole point? Why go away from the bow and arrow path to make something useless?

#13

This Pistol Cavalry changed into this Horse Archer

While I love both and I’m all-in for both ideas, changing the core-idea of a class to make it versatile makes it lose its point.
Even so, we are seeing a lot of german and european based classes. Making it otherwise loses the game consistency.

#14

I guess I’ll be the one to say it. Who cares?

Did you see mythical creatures in reinessance europe? Magic? They’re free to mix ideas as they see fit, it’s their game. Sorry I can’t agree with your reasoning, and as much as I value immersion in games in my eyes you’re going too far for the sake of it. Maybe it’s just not a game for you?

#15

Oh, I’m not that really serious heheh :grinning:

But there aren’t many games with those settings and I really like the exploration of it.
Look at Granado Espada. Brilliant master piece on a set era that no one did and it was amazing.

Yeah, I don’t care what they do, but if they use specific words and expect people to believe it, they need to be consistend on what they do.
I mean: Let’s say they declare the Knight class. It’s mounted, it uses spears or sword+shield and they follow their specific king. Then every knight-fan, lore-fan or mounted-classes-fan will look into the Knight class. But then they say “Yeah, you are a knight, but as the class lack abilities to act like a proper cavalry, you can unmount, swap to your bow and act as a ranged support”… It just breaks it, you know?

That’s what they did.
“Hey guys, let’s call a class Schwarzer Reiter and give it guns, like the real ones did. But as they lack skills of their own to use guns, let’s give them a bow and arrow and they can be archers again”. It isn’t SR really and breaks the purpose of it.

SR will be my main class and I’ll abuse the love for bows that I have. But when I see someone using the terms from early guns warfare, I do expect they to follow their own words. Geez, imagine a musketeer burst class with long cooldowns? heh

#16

I don’t think it’s a problem at all. For me, in a video game, the design should support the mechanic. I’d rather have balanced SR who use two-handed spear than over-powered/too weak SR who use pistol (just a rough example). And, anyway, SR is the only class in this game who can use pistol, their identity is not lessened at all.

#17

Hey can any one tell me how Swift Step works with SR as the link say you can use it on Mount

And what is with Fletcher Skills skill simulator say you can use them with all Weap combos

i know this is an old post but i still try my luck to get here some help cuz i did not find any good Archer Guide how explains skill´s and Stats good i dont look for a Build i can follow i just want to learn more about archer and the Schwarze Reiter

it would be great if some one can help me a bit with my Archer stuff =)