Tree of Savior Forum

[Review][Mini-Guide] Swordsman: All classes and best builds

Class and Rank
#108

yea skyliner is hella strong for its sp cost, the T0 modifier on bleed is just insane, im hoping thats the only thing they will nerf, without it skyliner is alright i think, it will just turn into a shitty double punch with more aoe lol

as for dps, by big players your probably thinking of doppel C2 with 2 handed swords or something right xD, too meta for me lol
i could go Hop C2 > Doppel C2
for insane damage all day everyday, but ill be stuck with 1 handers
or Hop C2 > Dopel C1 > Dragoon C1
for straight up murder.

i wish i could go crazy but kOBT is so slow lol, i cant fund alts
i need me a kTEST account =/

#109

Well, I mean mostly if they go after the 0 CD and remove that, then the entire build just falls apart. As long as it has the 0 CD I think it will be fine.

The problem with Doppel C2 is that the new skills are limited to 2H Swords only and if you swap to that from a spear, then you are going to lose the Finestra buff. Sure, you could get Cyclone and Deeds of Valor level 10 only, which is also a pretty good option, but I feel it would kind of be a waste to not take full advantage of everything that class can give you.

By big players I do mean Doppel C2, Corsair C2 and Fencer builds.

Let’s say that you do instead take Hoplite C2 for something else to deal more damage, then you would still not have Peltasta while those other builds will have it.

Even though at Rank 7 there will be stronger builds, it doesn’t mean that this build would be that far behind, I think it is fine as long as the 0 CD on Sky Liner is a thing. If I had to put it on a “Tier” on my list, it would be “Tier 2” (second best tier), at Rank 7. Maybe lower at “Tier 3”, since we don’t exactly know what level 200+ looks like, if Peltasta becomes even more important (lots of grinding), then it certainly would go down.

This is why I prefer to wait until the balance changes calm down before start planning on any builds for Rank 7+. Look at kobt, there is a maintenance almost every day and lots of changes going on around, I am sure there are going to be more changes once people reach Rank 7 and start playing around with the new classes.

They could nerf Sky Liner, or they could remove the Doppel C2 skills restriction of 2H Swords, or any other change.

#110

hmm oke, thanks for the input im just a big fan of spear wielding and i like to spam cool looking skills over auto attacks lol, reealy hoping skyliner doesnt get its cd back, it opens up alot of possiblites which i think they want for all the classes

i get your point about being prudent and waiting it out for buffs/nerfs
but as a D2 and Poe player i cant resist theorycraft lol
when is saw all the possibilities for skyliner i had one of those “urge to build rising” moments

#111

Yeah, for now just have fun with it and enjoy this build. We will see what happens in the future, no need to worry about that until/if it happens.

#112

@Cathexis

Why?..
IMO that’s really the only way Highlander could keep up in dmg compared to other classes.
The 0 cd Skyliner had its dmg nerfed making it only 450 per attack at max.
And let’s be honest, nothing else it has is THAT great…
Maybe cross slash.
But everything else has a long cool down.
Even cross slash after you’ve used its overheat up…
And you get more dmg and survivability out of spamming a lunged Flanconnade.
Unless you lunge -> cross slash -> Skyliner and even then you only get 2-3 OP skyliners out before lunge’s debuff is over…
Then your back to getting more dmg from Flanconnade

And from my experience with Dopple and a c3 highlander.
Most things after Mage tower can’t bleed…
Making highlander EXTREMELY weak

Also since there’s nothing at rank 7 for a Hoplite+Corsair besides dragoon (which I personally don’t want)
You think it’s a bad idea to c1 Dopple at rank 7 just for the cyclone and DOV?
Or should I take dragoon? :confused:

#113

falconade is pigeon holed into rapiers
skyliner is versatile, it has no weapon restrictions and you can get it early

also the sp cost of falconade makes it far more expensive to upkeep as a regular spam ability than skyliner
in terms of efficiency skyliner wins out, lets take both at level 5
skyliner is 36 damage per sp spent
falconade is 15.6 damage per sp spent
using a simple forumla of:
(base damage x 2) / sp cost

realistically i dont think anyone would be willing to stretch falconade to lvl 10-15 with the sp cost ramping up to a whopping 73-94 even at lvl 5 its 52 sp per cast which is difficult if you have no alchemist to supply you with pots or if you dont take any spr, it only gains very little efficient damage per sp spent, skyliner at lvl 10 actually drops in efficiency but its still far superior to lvl 6 falconade, both have almost the same base damage, but one uses 26 sp and the other 57. sure falconade can increase in levels but at what cost?

falconade is not bad by any means though, at higher levels its better for burst damage and mixing in auto attacks, but it should not be treated as a replacement for them if your willing to give it more than 1 level, you will burst very hard, but in a sustained fight and grinding scenarios your sp will be drained extremely quickly, a typical swordie sp pool of 1-2k can scarecly cast higher levels of falconade enough, even if your using strong sp pots, it becomes inefficient if the regen cannot be used to its fullest with a small sp pool

to sustain the absurd costs youd have to have 50-100x the sp cost of the skill as sp and enough regen to use all your other skills if your gonna use it for spamming, its not like oblique shot is for archers and now skyliner for swordies,

T0 modifier from bleed is actually immense, it nearly triples the individual damage of each hit
the lunge bonus from falconade is a T3 modifier, much like hoplites spear lunge.
anyway both of them use debuffs to boost damage and both debuffs can miss, so its much better to compare them as individuals rather than skills boosted by debuffs
for damage mods and damage calculations refer to this thread

#114

Most people I’ve seen are willing to do that, 94 mana is not THAT much.
And it’s much better then auto attacking on. Fencer.
All you need to up keep falconade spam is like 30 SPR that’s all I needed in CBT.
There’s also gear and gems… Mana costs aren’t that big a deal honestly.

falconade is one the best Fencer skills I’m certainly willing to max it~
There’s nothing else besides lunge worth maxing anyway.

#115

yep thats at lvl 5 your still sacrificing that 30 spr for 30 str, lets not forget your using rapiers over 2handed sword/spears with it too
i know you love fencers but if you look at the raw numbers skyliner is clearly better for the purpose of spamming
94 sp is a massive deal imo dont know if youve played archers but the sp cost on oblique shot was one of the major issues they had.
anways heres another comparison using sp efficiency.
940 sp for 10 casts comes out at 16380 damage on a lvl 15 falconade
936 sp for 36 casts comes out at 32400 damage on lvl 10 skyliner

like i said falconade wins out for straight up burst damage but in a sustained fight, like world bosses it just wont hold up and your spending more money for stronger pots using a weaker weapon, by all means stick with falconade its very clear you love the fencer class. all i can say is, at least adress its caveats, dont think i have anything more to prove.

#116

It is too cost-efficient right now.

I don’t think it is OP, but it is one of the most cost-efficient ways to deal damage right now, especially for a skill that you get at Rank 3. When you put it in the context of the entire Swordsman tree, even if it falls off at higher levels, it will still be able to match other damage-dealing methods out there while using less resources than them. Not to even mention the 100% up-time availability.

To make it fair, Sky Liner has to use more resources or deal less damage so it isn’t as cost-efficient, or they have to remove the 0 CD thing.

Since it already deals low damage and the only way to amplify that is through Bleeding, I think the best ways to approach it is:

  • Reduce it from 2 hits, to only 1
  • Remove the 0 CD and go back to overheat
  • Greatly increase it’s SP cost

Either of those options would make it a fair skill.

@xechidna @yodish92

For the Fencer build, I would never make a Highlander+Fencer build.

Flanconnade is one of the best skills in the Fencer class, I always make sure to max that one. I also almost never used auto-attacks on Fencer since they are pretty weak and it is just better to use the skills in the kit.

EDIT:

Doppelsoeldner C1 is really strong and will make any build better. So yes, it is a good option if you don’t want to take Dragoon.

#117

yea higlander + fencer is counter intuitive, fencer is better paired with barb or peltasta
lower levels of falconade can be spammed, but at the upper levels i just dont think it will be as efficient, you’ll have to stack lots of spr and sacrifice str for the 73-94 mana cost, while chugging high lvl alch pots for days

i think they will excel at the 3 star maps with tough mobs, while rolling in a party
i guess we will see when some one makes it to C2 fencer.

#118

@yodish92
Again it only takes 30spr to spam it for ever.
30 SPR is easy to reach.
Your not losing any STR and even if you were 30 STR is not a lot…

In fact on fencer specifically I like to build DEX2 STR1 and SPR every 10 lvl until you have 30 SPR.
Alternatively you could use gear that increases SPR or gear that increases crit dmg if STR is THAT important to you.

@Cathexis
I’m not saying that i’ed ever use highlander + Fencer I’m just saying that Skyliner is not the End-All of OP skills.
It’s not even close…
There ARE other options out there is what I’m saying.
And, IMO it’s really the only way highlander can keep up in dmg to the other classes.

Everyone I see is making this out to be the new mega OP skill of the century and I’m tired of it is all

#119

The problem is not if it is OP or not. The problem is that it is too cost-efficient and that aspect has to be nerfed, which has nothing to do with being OP.

For Fencer I would never sacrifice STR for SPR.

Venier already gives +19 SPR, and they don’t need accuracy on their gloves so they can use SP regen gems. Then there is Petamion / Max Petamion, and so on.

#120

@Cathexis

What?.. XD

Also you should know by now that I’m hybrid pvp/pve build.
And unless they let us distribute our stats differently for pvp and pve I need SPR for the block pen in PVP

Because vs a paltasta in pvp with a swordie…
If I don’t have block pen I’m never going to hit them…

#121

Seeing how some of the more experienced swords are lurking I’ll just ask here.

How viable do you think this build is I’m focusing on stike skills because CBt2 taught me that I’d need more strike skills on rotation for highkicks debuff to get the most out of it.

Also many like using plate armor which is weak to strike so I have a natural edge against a popular equipment path.

I also double as a tank with max swashbuckling and plan to run 3 leathers + 1 cloth for equipment, as well as using maces primarily for the spr/Sp Reg and magic defense that they offer to help however slightly with magic dmg.

High-guard is left at one because my role is to dish out dmg, ultimately. As well as rim/umbo left at 5/4 respectively to save points for maxing the c3 pel skills later.

#122

Petamion (+8 to all stats), Max Petamion (+16 to all stats).

@dog_593

I think anything higher than Peltasta C1 is bad.

If your role is to deal damage, I don’t think you should even pick Rodelero at all. Now, if you want to deal as much damage while being a Rodelero, then just get Helm Chopper from Barbarian, and I would pick something like Fencer for Rank 7:

Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian->Rodelero C3->Fencer

Can also use Doppel or Templar for Rank 7.

If you try to make your build to deal damage with as many Strike skills as possible, not only do you make it too situational, but by picking the classes that would allow you to do so you are instead hurting your build, as other combinations out there will still deal more damage in the end.

For equipment, I think that overall it is a bad idea to use anything other than full Plate. Magic defense on this game is terrible, so no point in using a Mace either.

#123

Depends on if you are PvPing or not.
In pvp Magic Def is required vs mages…

But I know that you are speaking mainly from a pve perspective

#124

For both.

Just look at when everyone was running around with exploited characters. Even having over 1,000 SPR did nothing for magic defense to reduce magic damage, it was pretty much the same.

#125

Idk…
Cloth armor and it’s mastery seems to do a lot in pvp for me.

I still kinda want a fencer build w/o Barb tho…
I just can’t find a good one

#126

Just as an example:

  • Roxona Robe: +18 magic defense
  • Roxona Pants: +18 magic defense
  • Roxona Boots: +5 magic defense

I am too lazy to go around and look for the best cloth armor to stack magic defense. But you are gonna have like 150~ magic defense from equipment. Cloth Armor Mastery gives you +25 magic defense at max level while using 4 cloth pieces.

Now, look at how terrible SPR is for trying to stack magic defense:

100 SPR = 20 magic defense
500 SPR = 100 magic defense
1,000 SPR = 200 magic defense

Your average damage build will deal between 3k~5k damage per second, but good builds deal over 8k damage per second and I am sure they will deal even more at Rank 7.

So if they deal 8,000 damage per second, and you only have 200 magic defense, then it is 7,800 damage per second. No difference at all.

The only help you get from the Cloth Mastery is the 10% reduction from magic attacks while using a full set, which would make that 8,000 -> 7,200 + your 200 magic defense then it is 7,000. Still, not any meaningful difference there.

The math is just not there.

Cat with boots - A balance between Evasion and Damage fencer
#127

Maybe I was fighting a bunch of troll “full con” mages then.
But I already said that SPR was for block pen in pvp, not for the m.def
Again… I speak from experience when I say that w/o block pen, you are gonna have a hard time hitting anyone who took at least c1 paltasta.

I mean don’t get me wrong they aren’t impossible to hit by any means.
But it’s hell for melee attackers when your skills get blocked

Also I feel like dmg variants are lower in pvp