And may I ask what is the chance of Armor Break debuffs to apply?
Does level of [Umbo Thrust] make difference in duration or chance of the debuffs?
We donāt have access to the exact numbers unfortunately, so it is all guess for now. From my experience it is pretty high, I would say it is around 80% or so, but I wouldnāt take this percentage as anything close to a fact.
Skill level doesnāt make any difference for chance or duration, only on the damage.
With the info you gave me on fencer c2 @Cathexis
Iām starting to think that Hop might be pretty good on fencer.
I want a build that can pvp and pve effectively, and is pretty good on bosses.
Barb may get a dmg boost for mobbing, but I mobbed pretty well when I did make a Hop by using taunt then having the enemies run up to me while I used stabbing and everything died every time. 
So maybe Iāll hop c2 for the lvl 10 c1 skills.
With paltes as my rank 2.
But that leaves me with a free rank at rank 5, maybe Iāll work Rodelero at rank 5 for its great pvp prowess.
Seem like a bad idea?
It would overall be a bad idea.
While Stabbing and Pierce would make your build better against bosses, it still wouldnāt be nearly as good as a Hoplite C2->Corsair C2 or Hoplite C3->Doppelsoeldner.
You canāt use Finestra, Spear Lunge, Long Stride or Synchro Thrusting with a Rapier, and you are stuck with only 2 skills, which is a huge waste of two circles.
Finally, Hoplite is really bad for PvP, so you lose a lot of points on that aspect too. You try to patch that up with Rodelero, but you are giving up higher utility, damage output and synergy for so little gained.
In the end, your build is still overall weaker on all aspects of the game compared to a build with better synergy.
@Cathexis
I wouldnāt particularly say that Barb or highlander has better synergy though.
Fencerās only dmg buff from Barb is war cry since stacking frenzy takes too long on fencer.
And +30 dmg on a boss is not going to make any significant change in your overall dps.
And bosses are really the only thing that fencer struggles with (sorta)
Where pierce out puts more dmg on a boss then ANYTHING Barb or higher can do.
Combo that with Attaque Coquille and preparation
And thereās no such thing as bosses unless they are world bosses
But you may be right on the PVP thing though.
But who knows what rank 8 will bring~
Iām just saying that fencer already has what it needs to be effective on its own.
Barb is really only adding mobability and mobbing is really not hard for fencer.
ESPECIALLY if I have taunt anyway
Hi !
Thanks for your sharing @Cathexis ans others !
Looking for swordman PvP build so what do you think about this :http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/n5nc3xfb8r/
Build : str/con/dex
Pro : lot of cc / decent damage / decent tankiness
Con : aoe ratio attack on HL weak / no gap closer / no distant skill
Question : can i learn guard attribute when iām rodelero or i need to go c1 peltastaā¦please no the 2nd choice ;_;
I know the PvP system is not enough clear to define a real strategy but i try to anticipate 
PS : not native english speaker so sorry !
There is a lot of synergy with Barbarian, you have Lunge and Seism (+Helm Chopper and Cleave), which gives you a HUGE burst damage which is really good for PvE and PvP in general.
Without the stuns that Barbarian brings, you wonāt be able to use your Fencer skills in PvP, since the animation of most of your skills take way too long and anyone can just walk away from them.
I am not even sure what you want to do anymore. If you go Fencer+Hoplite, you have no PvP, bad mobbing, decent bosses and low damage output.
But even then, the best part of your build (bosses) is heavily outclassed by other builds out there, so your build doesnāt even win in that regard.
Quest bosses are already too easy anyways, I am not sure why you even care about them. While World Bosses is mostly about high DPS parties competing to win the damage race and the cube rewards.
You canāt be good on every aspect of the game, you gotta sacrifice some aspects to become better at others, otherwise you end up with a build that doesnāt excel at anything.
Hi!
Yes, you can learn the Guard attribute from Rodelero.
Your build looks good for a PvP build that is focused around being annoying (disrupting), which plays a big role in team oriented PvP (where you can communicate with your team). If you are alone, I donāt think you will be able to accomplish much, and a class like Cataphract would overall be better for PvP in that case.
BUT, that is during the current state of the game, where PvP is still very primitive and undeveloped. We will have to see how the game evolves in the future as more features and balance changes are applied to it.
Thx.
well i donāt expect stat reset to be done indefinitely, but lets hope they allow under 5 or so ;_;
also during cbt i died quite a bit but used icoins for a quick res. it was beta so no big deal, also had tons of coins. But this just thought me when game goes live, play more carefully xdā¦
so far iām familiar with wizard pyro which can fireball down bosses. but i have no idea how fast a swordsman>pelt>barbc3>dopple build can down a boss ?
Not to mention the fact as a wizard i usually shielded myself and barely took damage most of the time as long as shield was up. Not sure about swordman survivability in comparison while dealing damage.
By the way, one of my tos friends made a tank build for lv150 using con, and probably some con. what do you think about it?
As you see Im not even raise my shield to deal with those mobs. Blocking all the way, damage that punctured through will get filtered by defense and finally absorbed by fat HP buffer.
To grow this kind of build in obt/official without reset would be PITA but its a very good investment to be one of most valuable party member, anytime, anywhere. And this build is VERY EXPENSIVE on equipment despite of passive job it do, so you gotta try it probably after you have some DPS char established.
Armor wear out pretty fast, so you need to carry at least two or three sets every time.
In that vid I was using crappy armor though, things got lot better when I switched to Roxona set (except legwyn legging) and Ludas shield.
Yeah this build is intended for PVE only, which is good since grinding and bosses is one of main elements in this game; And recently devs made it clear that after lvl 200, lvling pretty much grindfest like in RO.
But then again Iāve been throwing challenge to random people and I win quite number of time . I can deal some reasonable damage when I combine umbo thurst and spear lunge, but they hardly land any hit on me tongue.gif (2/10 chance on notmal attack, 0.5/10 chance for skills)
Even worse for opponent that rely so much on skill. I just keep blocking until he exhausted of SP. And then Ill proceed to CC savagery while he cant do ā ā ā ā without SP (they hide and regen like most archers do, or potting like a pussy laugh.gif ). I still sometimes win over mage for their little HP, but I could never win against archer with poison.
HP isnāt much of problem, the only time I need pots is when all my 3 sets of armor broken, and I lost the plate defense bonus (I lost of hp in vid because it was just solo demo, without any dps clearing the mobs). Most of time there will be healer in party though.
And considering we can get at least 1m from silver and recipe drops for every 2.5 hour of party time in prison, repair cost is pretty much negligible.
At level 150 those mobs deal mostly 1 damage to me (with aspersion buff that I bought) so I donāt know why you would even bother to gimp yourself like that. I deal 5 times the amount of damage your friend does, while surviving just as long.
At higher level where mob deal 1k+ damage, without good attack you will just die before finishing even one pack of mob. Better take 1-2k damage and kill them rather than 800-900 and never kill anything.
Amazing post and very well written, summarized a lot of the things and even gave insight to swordie facts I wasnāt aware of, I would however like to throw in my 2 cents.
CBt2 I joined this game and went swordc3>rodec3 and got as far as 178. What I can say about swordc3 after saying actually using it at later stages off the game.
I think sword c3, when fixed will be viable as a sword/support class, specifically auto-atk support. The best things to take away from the sword-circles atm is 3 lack luster buffs, however the utility two of them provide is beyond clutch in pvp and pve situations. The only problem imo is the damage isnāt there.
PvE: not as bad as you think, sword c3 has problems and definitely falls off in contrast to other circles. However max restrain coupled with jump/slashing leaves you relatively safe. Heck max restrain even with a 40% proc rate still felt really good. I can say with confidence there wasnāt a mob of enemies I couldnāt whack to oblivion with restrain up (and other buffs).
Thatās also taking into consideration my poor circle choice.
PvP: Now hereās where it gets tricky, in pvp restrain has, arguably half the proc rate, even when maxed, so nothing short maxed restrain will prove useful if your getting it for this purpose. Now in actual battles, the stun when activated would affect the player at any time. Heck some enemy skills will be canceled mid animation due to the stun-interference. Not to mention it makes catching mobile enemies with a jump/slash pretty easy.
That being said I still believe thereās a merit to the sword c3 circle, but not directly for dps purposes. It adds autoatk utility, with added dmg, increased god-mode (pain barrier), and mini-stun. Coupled with a class that could take advantage of that I feel it would truly shine.
Rodelero c3 despite being great imo c3 giving an arsenal of stuns/disables, and coupled with swordc3 provided a near unbeatable setup. Other swordie-dps couldnāt match my god-mode, mini-stun kept players from doing consistent damage.
I will say it just to make it clear, swordc3 is definitely pvp-viable, however planning has to be done 100ā for a build that wants to utilize it, at the state swordc3ās currently are.
My thoughts on rodeC3 worth it, Iāf you can put up with the hell of a grind you will be in for to get to that point, your prior circle choices can make this heaven or hell. I went through hell.
Barbarian builds canāt kill a boss as fast as a Pyro, the strength of Barbarians is in short fights, where they can kill fast (even overkill).
For the tank build: I think they are useless.
As I said on the first post of this thread:
2.- CON is not necessary, at all. I went through every map, every dungeon and every boss with not a single point into CON.
It always makes me sad when I see people that heavily invested into that stat, only to deal no damage, make their party worse since it takes longer to kill, as well as losing aggro in seconds because they canāt compete against a level 200 full damage Mage or Archer.
And please, donāt be one of those people that just taunts and holds C (guard) forever. This is totally unnecessary, just taunt and deal damage.
Tree of Saviorās playing style is currently built around killing as fast as you can, as everything is simply a punching bag. There is no room for tank builds in this game.
Building a tank is counter-productive, as you lessen your partyās efficiency by bringing no damage and a 0 CON no-tank build can tank as well as you, while still dealing lots of damage.
Like @thailehuy showed on his video, every Swordsman takes minimal damage from those mobs, regardless of what build they are using.
Thanks for your input, it always helps to hear more about peopleās experience with their builds and the game.
The thing about the current state of the game is that the most efficient way to play it is by dealing as much damage as you can. In the case of builds taking additional Swordsman circles, they put themselves in a position where they will always deal less damage than every other build that didnāt advance further in that class.
Would you rather:
- Kill a mob in 2 seconds with an efficient build
or - Kill a mob in 10+ seconds with a build that could stun with auto-attacks
The answer is pretty clear. The faster you kill, the more mobs you get, the more money and experience you are rewarded with, and most importantly, the more time you save.
Unless there is a drastic change in the gameās fundamental aspects of PvE, then this wonāt change.
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Thanks for this guide, I feel like it really narrows down things I was starting to grasp from watching all the different swordsman classes and ranks, estimating synergies and such.
I really appreciate the Build section, itās going to be a great starting point for deciding which role to focus on.
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Iām starting to think of it less as a linear take the next rank and more or, what circle do I need to improve my char, with what I currently have available. And there are countless ways to improve character when it comes to circle choice and skill selection.
Imo its a trade off, I believe a s3 sword> anything can beat its counterpart in pvp, easily simply because of the buffs on their counterparts. I havenāt tested extensively, however if a swordC3/rodeC3 has the potential to rock in pvp I wonder how much more effective restrain would be if it worked as intended (on bosses). Either way Iām still of the opinion that swordc3 is viable, under the right conditions.
I@Cathexis
What I really want is a class that can effectively take out bosses and do well in pvp, while still being a fencer.
I also just donāt think that Barb c3 is the only thing worth getting on a fencer.
Your only reason for getting it is for mobbingā¦
But really any class with taunt can mob well
And I was planning on going paltes anyway for its attributes and taunt.
So I just donāt think barbarian is needed for me.
Especially since Iām going to be with a party most of the time anyway.
And on your case of world bosses I still donāt think barbarian is so great for that.
I know vertical slash is bad for the most part double dmg on a armor break target +10% for every debuffā¦
On world bosses I feel like that may be decent.
And if the boss can bleed skyliner has 0 cool down now so after a cross slash I get 8 seconds of double dmg from skyliner and the lunge enhance slash attacks
However I know that your going to disagree or similar and I am sorta flooding your post.
Should we move this to PMs?
Also donāt take this as me arguing with you if thatās how it seems.
I just want to make sure I have no doubts or feeling on one class being a better pick before I commit to another.
The problem is that Fencer isnāt really that good against bosses, no matter what build you pick.
While Fencer has short windows where they can put out some nice burst damage, their overall DPS is very low compared to the real boss-killing builds Swordsman has available.
There are only a limited amount of cubes (rewards) that world bosses give. The parties that deal the highest damage will be rewarded with those, while everyone else will receive nothing.
During the iCBT2, we had a short period where the highest amount of level 200 players were active during the game, and it was during this time that competition existed during world bosses and only the highest DPS parties were getting the cubes (mostly the case at Dullahan).
I am pretty sure there will be an even bigger population when the game goes live, so if the aim of a person is to participate in world bosses, then a high DPS build will be more important than ever.
Unfortunately, Fencer is not the class for this. And assuming that a party wants to stay competitive (to get rewards from world bosses), then they will have to pick the highest DPS possible for their party. A party automatically lowers their chance to get rewards by choosing a Fencer (over a Corsair C2 / Hoppel / etc).
You can participate in world bosses and still get rewards, but it wonāt come from your Fencer, it will come from someone else on your party stepping up to deal the damage you are lacking (most likely a very high DPS mage).
So, taking this as a premise, the best (overall) builds for a Fencer are:
- Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian C3->Fencer
- Swordsman->Peltasta->Highlander C3-> Fencer
@Cathexis
I was already planning on making a corsair C2 or 3
I hope they release account storage to pass some of these goodies to our other charactersā¦
But with the way trading is in TOSkr Iām thinking this wonāt be the case.
Either way if I go Highlander I think thatās better for PVP with paltas, and itās pve is not bad.
Mages canāt cast anything in pvp if they are bleeding, and archers + mages canāt escape you if they canāt jump.
A 25% stun from umbo and block + evasion means Melees without SPR wonāt be doing a while lot to you.
Plus highlander is decent on bossesā¦
And I can still mob with taunt, (not as well as Barb but stillā¦)
Lastly do we know how much lunge increases slash dmg by?
Donāt worry about that. This is good discussion.
You present your points, I present mines, if in the end we canāt come up to an agreement then you will go with the build you feel most comfortable with and that is perfectly fine. The important thing is that you have a build that you enjoy and can have the most fun out of when playing this game.
It is also good keeping it in this thread, as everyone else can see both perspectives we have on how to build a Fencer, they can see the advantages and disadvantages or choosing a build over another, and come with a conclusion of their own.
Or why not, someone else coming in with perhaps another perspective we didnāt consider and enriches the discussion with it.
In the end, everyone wins.
Well, if you are already planning on having a high DPS (Corsair C2+) character, then you donāt have to worry about world bosses with your Fencer (Quest bosses will die to any build, they are really easy).
Then just focus around PvE and PvP, and if in the end Highlander is the better choice for you, then that is a great build to have for a Fencer.
Lungeās effect depends on the opponentās armor type, the increase in damage can go from 50% to 100% (double damage).
@Cathexis
+100% sounds delicious~
Lol.
I do think that Barb fencer is probably equally as powerful in pvp.
It does have stuns out the ass and good high dmg low start up skills.
But I think Barb is better suited with Rodel then Paltas problem is that Barb is rank3 not 2 so thatās one rank later that you can pick up Rodel meaning you canāt get Fencer until 7ā¦
And c2 fencer is IMO too good not to have.
In the end itās stuns and unconditional dmg Vs utility and disablesā¦
And itās a tough choiceā¦
My bad if itās been asked before but, does Barbās āStomping Kickā activate when Hopliteās āLong Strideā skill is used?
@forgamin_dd
Stomping kick is an active skill that can only be used in the air thereās no āactivationā unless you press the hotkey for it.
Iāve not tested it, but I donāt think you can use stoping kick in the long stride animation