Tree of Savior Forum

Rebuild Feedback Compilation

General Discussion
#13

I think he just wants things articulated in a more concise/formulaic way to make it easier to read for people who are not native english speakers. I tend to overexplain things, so it makes sense to me.

@STAFF_Bob I’d say that the biggest things for me, in more simplified questions/statements:

  1. Some classes still feel a lot more skill heavy than others. Do you plan on adding/removing more skills?
  2. Some classes still feel like they only serve to buff other classes within the tree, and have no unique identity, what might be done to address this?
  3. The seal system feels far too punishing and several people I know who would participate feel as though too few people will do it because it’s another RNG system. Do you think you’ll keep the destruction chance on fails? Will any of the other RNG gearing systems be rebalanced or addressed?
  4. Since every class can equip a shield, are there plans to fix it so that everyone does not just wear one for the defense all the time, and then uses autoswap to do attacks?
  5. Any plans to fix chrono?
  6. Any plans to make wugushi and other physical damage DoTs crit? Magic ones can but wugu ones can’t…
  7. What’s the plan for monk? Chaplain seems to have slipped into its role, and does it better than monk.
  8. Any other information on the new archer class? How will it be balanced without feeling forced for muskets, for example?
3 Likes
#14

I find another thing lacking in monk is flavor. Mind you, I understand that flavor will never really be a priority, but as it stands monk is nothing more than a straight forward damage piano. You push buttons in a specific sequence and damage (less than other options) happens.

Taking from other concepts in other games, monk skills could have WAY more big CD’s that have some additional way to reduce said cd. Take golden bell shield for instance. You could have DP reduce its CD by 1 every DP. This way GBS gains value thru more use and at the same time DP gains value by bringing your other skill CD’s back up via GBS.

These “added effects” need to be included in the monk kit to even remotely justify the poor dps monk has.

#15

Yeah, and then you have Inquisitor with their cooldown reduction attribute per kill.

At least as it stands, Monk right now is just simple damage class that does not do as much damage as other classes that also has better utility skills.

#16

I get that language IS a barrier, but it’s unavoidable in (any) international market.

For example, I will critique portions of your list of sample questions. I will be coming at this as someone who has had to constantly translate a client’s requests to something my team of devs can understand.

Which “some classes”?

  • All classes have generally the same number of skills.

What does skill heavy mean?

  • The number of skills have already been reduced. Is the current list still too much?

Which skills should be removed/replaced?

  • Which skills are under used and why?
  • which skills are always used and why?

What do you mean by “buff other classes”?

  • What do you mean by “in the same tree”?

What do you mean by “identity”?

  • A monk is someone who uses his fists as weapons. How is that not unique?

These 2 points alone already generate way too many unanswered questions for a communication system that requires a middle man (forums). If this were a direct conversation it would be way different.

#17

Obviously, because you can’t read either.

Not a debate thread. Pick your favorite thread and hash it out there, then post whatever you decide in here.

#18

Bullet Marker is still overloaded with skill post Re:Build, the average is 6 but there are some exceptions on skill point sum.

On theme it is, (mechanical) identity not that much. If you want get deeper check this thread i wrote about the 3 pillars of class design.

#19

That was more devil’s advocate than anything. It was mainly to illustrate that making feedback concise/formulaic, shorter/easier to read (basically dumbed down), raises more questions making it more confusing than clear.

Not all issues are the same. As such not all issues can fit a mold.

I mean, what does that even say about your work (great work IMHO, you know I’m a fan). Would you dumb all those down risking losing a lot of the ideas in your breakdowns? How would you feel knowing your carefully crafted feedback risks not getting read at all because “it is too long?”

I guess OP doesn’t think feedback on how IMC accepts feedback isn’t feedback at all.

1 Like
#20

Just curious though, in the name of balance, is IMC planning to make special costumes for every other classes (Stage 1, 2 and 3 costumes along with TP class costume) like Zealot and Matador for ReBuild (not including base classes)?

#21

I was going to give you a feedback for your feedback on how to accept feedback from players who possibly could have had their feedback ignored but then my head started hurting so I’ve just decided to stop :exploding_head:

4 Likes
#22

That, to tell you the truth, I would not be able to tell you… Not because it’s classified info but because I really don’t know. :stuck_out_tongue: But I guess if it’s going to happen it’s going to happen further down the line because for now stabilizing Re:Build is top priority

4 Likes
#23

Because transcendence will play a bigger part in gear completion and saalus will also slightly become more of a pain to do everyday, there should be an increase in shard drops from everyday things that players do. Here are my suggestions for possible new blessed shard sources:

  • Make elite mobs spawn in all challenge stages instead of 6 and 7 only
  • Increase blessed shard drop rate in challenge cubes (but reduce the amount from 5 pcs per drop).
  • Make red monster orbs spawn elite mobs with guaranteed shard drops.
  • Maybe just combine saalus with exp dungeons (like blessed shards for first dungeon run everyday, for up to X alts), since it’s pretty much the same thing with different rewards. Or turn saalus into a weekly already / put shards into uphill and then remove saalus.

Just something to consider, because if you try to count how many blessed shards you actually need to get a weapon to trans 10 and attempt to farm everything by yourself it’s simply too much.

1 Like
#24

bob i will just say this, i don’t know if it will help or not.

i brought 23 of my friends to play this game together at launch.
all of them left because of the overly restricted feeling in game.

such as warehouse restriction
trading restriction
market restriction
so many extreme restriction that it turned them off, one of them even make quite a funny joke that he ain’t going to prison anymore, deliberately trying to say that his time in ToS feels like his time in prison, he did some small mistake, don’t judge too much.

ultimately that is one of the core problem in my opinion, frame issues and stutter issues wasn’t even brought up. but the restrictions was too much for new player to enjoy, it felt so like mobile game.

on a side note, please fix whatever is causing the problem when we are trying to click a boss in a fight, its impossible to click and is very frustrating.

3 Likes
#25

Ok! Let me redo my points:

  • Game looks too easy after november 25, now there is no real challenge and no need for Tankers
  • Rogue, Hackapell and maybe Squire need new class icons to follow along their new trees / roles
  • Chronomancer ended up only with skills that were always irrelevant
  • Enchanter still too magical-ish for Scout tree, please change animations / costume maybe
  • Oracle is too powerful of a support now, comparing to others. Please reconsider pros and cons balance
  • Sadhu needs more damage skill to be a proper DPS class, or a different approach for the spirit mechanic
  • Exorcist still work around Rubric, Engkrateia has a not useful duration, and Gregorate and Entity looks the same in how they work besides the reveal aspect of Entity. Also, bring Magnus Exorcismus to Exorcist.
  • Kabbalist needs more calculation-based skills, it was slowly loosing its characteristic
  • Monk still lacks in DPS performance. Please give it a combo system, a little more area and faster charge time on Energy Blast
  • Krivis is lacking performance, specially Daino for what it does and Meltsis because of high cooldown

I guess this should simplify the main points of what I said before.
I wish I could go further in details as I did… but oh well :’(
I also understand why. Hoping that this can help with some concerns that we have.

EDIT: updated the Oracle part, due to changes that happened later

2 Likes
#26

I am in the camp of people that need to see and do things to really offer proper feedback on a system so I plan to hold off till I can play it.

That being said, I want to make it clear that rebuild will not get people back in the game for long. They will still see the foundation of the game which is broken, and quit.

  • netcode needs to be addressed and how it affects the performance of the game
  • your ping to the servers is way too important for gameplay, you can’t realistically play this game unless you are close to the server. Even a ping of 180-200 is a huge detriment.
  • why is quest completion and player shops impacting the FPS of the game so drastically
  • pvp is meaningless and needs a complete revamp, gemstone was a good start. We need more battlegrounds type concepts like capture the flag, and arena pvp needs better rewards as well as premade teams.
  • rampant desyncing when there are 10 or more people on the screen needs to be addressed, this is an MMO.
1 Like
#27

Bring back Dragoon’s [Big Hunt Game] 2h spear attribute and make it work with 1h spears as well!

#28

really? this is what you ask for? really?

1 Like
#29

I’d always put my rest points here (i.e. after Maxing Rubric, Koinonia, and putting 1 point into the other skills) as it provides the best skill scaling result.
Imo it’s one of the best Exorcist skills, as it provides up to 75% damage reduction + immortality via attribute + knockdown&knock-back protection for the buff duration. With all these benefits, 6 seconds is already plenty, that’s 20% uptime or 40% uptime with Laima.

Obviously, if you would increase the duration, the skill effects would need to be reduced to counterbalance it, which makes the skill just bad again. Imo the one thing that should be changed is to enable Engkrateia on the run like Guardian Saint so you can benefit from the whole 6 seconds, not just 5 or 4.

No, that would be silly, simply because then you’d have to recalculate the CD and/or damage of Katadikazo.
Both skills are currently balanced around AoE and damage% with the one dealing up to 10k% and the other one 8k%. If you’d increase the CD of Rubric, then the damage would have to go up again to accommodate to the current Katadikazo modifiers, or Katadikazo would need a CD increase as well, which would cripple the AoE capabilities of Exorcist just for the sake of bringing a bad skill [M.E.] back.

Imo it would be best to leave M.E. for the Master Circle so the skill can actually be good while Exorcist can be good without it,too.

@STAFF_Bob

For general feedback I’d state these facts:

  • support-heavy Classes are too weak, forcing you to lose a lot of damage in return for utility skills that are ± useless outside of endgame content which is heavily limited (e.g. weekly/daily entrance limit or RNG-based spawns [Demon Lord field bosses])

  • monsters on average are too weak; this doesn’t mean they don’t have enough HP & defense but not enough attack to be a threat for people on their level if they have okish equipment;
    Monsters should still have enough of a potential so you don’t just face-tank a mob of 10-15 monsters
    (e.g. pre-25.11.2018 ktest patch values)

  • we need “Master Circles” to save a lot of Classes from the current status quo (i.e. mainly the support Classes) so they can develop and improve their unique gameplay

  • buff durations of permanent buffs should be improved to 5 minutes so we don’t have to have them on our main skill tab [very important for Mouse Mode and Controller mode players]
    e.g. :

  • Guardian Saint 60 seconds duration per skill level scaling

  • Ein Sof:Maintain Time attribute reintroduced;
    adds 60 seconds buff duration to Ein Sof buff per attribute level when cast on the Kabbalist himself; requires Ein Sof lvl 10 to learn [and remove the Ein Sof:Double Magic attribute in exchange (as it’s useless)]

  • more support-/buff skills need attributes to increase their general effects

#30

Targetting with mouse has been changed so that when targetting a mob or NPC or object the “interactive” cursor is placed in the middle of the sprite instead of the bottom. Concerning bosses, only the bottom circle can be targetted if you want to trigger a skill, which means mouse users can’t target bosses directly anymore. Usually I simply target vaguely in direction of the boss and pray the skill hits the boss, but yeah since that update I’m pretty much useless in a party too when fighting a boss…

It’s still hilarious to see my Rune Caster targetting a huge boss RIGHT NEXT TO IT with cursor in the center using Rune of Justice and each time the beam goes above the head or below the feet of the boss.

1 Like
#31

Based on these changes (specifically to support clerics), I think IMC is still treating classes as separate entities. This is beta days mentality that doesn’t work anymore. We’ve had over 2? 3? years of this and we are getting our 2nd? 3rd? major patch yet they still insist on this outdated philosophy.

It’s not all wrong though. Flavor-wise it works. “I’m a full support class so I only ever have support skills”. That statement supports the “each class is separate” mentality. Flavor should not EVER trump gameplay though.

Why can’t support classes have something (anything) to improve the base class cleric? How about something to improve cure (or even smite) as a dps skill. Surely 1 skill slot can be reserved to improve the dps capability of cleric so that picking a support class doesn’t completely neuter your ability to do damage.

#32

Some more short inputs after the recent 6th December patch on kTest:

  • Oracle looks really good now, but we now need some balancing with Krivis and Kabbalist skills

  • Merkabah still isn’t the tank the developers promised with Rank 8 introduction;
    maybe you could consider reintroducing the durability attribute and add a provoke effect to it so it can collect & tank the monsters [maybe remove the damage in exchange]

  • Gevura needs similar attributes to Death Sentence (enhancement & CD reduction) so it can compete with it;
    You could consider 1 second CD reduction per hit on an enemy with the Gevura debuff
    [as subtraction is a way of calculation not featured on Kabbalist yet, only has multiplication(Clone) and addition (Gematria & Notarikon)]