Tree of Savior Forum

Rebirth system, one solution to skill reset debate

General Discussion
#22

But…you can’t theory craft without information.

This game is plagued with not only vague information in the spell descriptions alone, but sheer and utter lack of it when it comes to classes that aren’t meta.

Find me a Rodelero guide, I dare you. All you’ll get at the most is a casual observation of the circle’s skills and which options seem more efficient based on a glance, but that’s not enough. Practical experience is necessary to test that high rank circle stuff. People are still confused about which of the Rodelero skills work on what in this game, and I’m betting that’s not the only circle choices that suffer from lack of documentation.

A better comparison would be that there are HEAPS of professionals who study court stats and player performance. This guy has a 80% rebound recovery success, or this guy has a 70% 3-point shot. While these stats are extrapolated and discussed ad nauseam on sports channels, they are used to predict outcomes, in the coach’s case maybe make roster judgment calls or who he puts in, things of that nature.

The thing is despite those very clear statistics, it doesn’t account for the fact that a guy can just plain miss a shot. In MMO terms, we can read the skill descriptions all we want, but it doesn’t account for the fact that some skills may not even work completely in the way you thought they would. In both cases with both players, the baller and the gamer, they should given another chance. The baller makes sure his overall % doesn’t dip too much because of a bad night, and the gamer makes a few tweaks to his build with his newfound knowledge. The baller isn’t sent back to the NCAA and the gamer shouldn’t be sent back to level 1.

For example, the Rodelero armor crush debuff does not work on bosses. Why? It doesn’t say on the skill that it doesn’t. There are similar buffs that do the same thing which do work on bosses. Someone has to eventually PICK this circle to find this out, and when they do, what then? They ditch their rank 5-6 character completely because oh well, learning experience?

You are mad if you think that scenario is meaningful for a player or presents any kind of positive gameplay experience that someone should be ok with, and doubly mad if you think that won’t directly contribute to someone’s reason for quitting (reasonably) in some cases.

2 Likes
#23

Why not use 1-4 hours of that 200 hours to research? Its not like you NEED to spend all of the time just playing and advancing into random ■■■■. xD

When people trust the forums too much though, they will end up with bad builds just because of people who dont know anything talk about how good a certain build is.

#24

Honestly, I don’t even care if my char is reset to base Lv.1

I just wanna keep my money and items.

#25

I don’t think rebirth would be as good as just if there is a reset option to reset your job level of that circle and having to earn 15 job levels over resetting all the way back to level 1 not being able to use 99% of your stuff and such. would be easier to just reroll over a rebirth system

#26

Why people keep asking for circle reset, saying that this game is “easy to screw up”. You are wrong, if you are played long enough you will know that practically every class can do dungeons or group content, everyday I see players who picks whatever they think will be good and guess what? Even that guys that pick 1 circle of each class can play and complete the dungeon.

You just need to check the description of the class and look at the skills that you like. If you are a “casual” why you are so worried over not picking the lastest korean meta? You think you can just ask a top player his build and then go and complete Earth Tower or something like that? Bad news, if you can’t do basic research you would probably destroy your character again with a circle reset, asking yourself why you cant do that damage or kill the monsters as fast as that guy that you copied his build.

TL;DR: Read!! You are not ruining your character if you aren’t using the top tier class. The only think you can argue is that skills don’t have enough information, the solution? Skill reset, there is a potion in the TP shop for that :slight_smile:

#27

Wait wait wait

If they truly dont want to “waste time”, then they better be efficient by preparing what to do with their character.

Hence they need to look up what they are getting into.

I’m not going to go through searching for Rodelero guides as the class has no interest to me, but here is what you can do, if you cant find any.

Check videos of Rodelero gameplays.
Ask players in the forum.
Find discussions about Rodelero, example here in the forum.

If a class is not much known, even by the community, there might be a reason why.

But yes, i agree, skill descriptions does lack alot of information.
There is only one thing a player can do right now, find info elsewhere about the class.
No matter how much a player scream for a circle reset, right now, all we can do is check for info elsewhere.

As for sports, point being, just because you mess up doesnt mean you can ask the judge for a do over, only because you didnt know the rules.

“Soccer seems like a nice sport, ill just play it, i dont have time to read about the rules!”
“Oh no, judge gave me a red card for taking the ball with my hands…but the person at the goal can take the ball with his hands…so why…”

Edit: here, a really good link, read about Rodelero. [Guide] Swordsman's Battle Manual (All classes) - By Cathexis

#28

DDO had the best rebirth system imo.

Put simply rebirth in gave a large number of minor bonuses the main one being a small passive bonus depending on what class you were.

In this game it would be the equivalent to +9 move speed if you transcend as a chrono or + 50 physical def if you transcend as a Pell.

That said DDO wasn’t a grind and was fun to level up

#29

Trust me that information covers barely even a chunk of what you’re in for…

There’s no substitute for practical experience. Anyone can tell you that. This is why it’s silly to make choices based on not even having it yet, so serious and permanent. It’s a backwards method.

#30

What is different from Rodelero gameplay and the current guide i linked?

#31

Um, casual players usually don’t care/read much into the game as long as they are enjoying it. They don’t bother to min-max nor follow much into the game mechanics. If a casual levels high enough and realised that the content is hard due to his/her build choices, they will usually accept that the content is hard and not blame it on their choices.

Casuals don’t ask about features that are not in the game. They accept the game as is and since they are casual, they pick up and drop the game at their whim and fancy.

So, stop using causal as an excuse to further your arguments and prove your point. If you delve into game mechanics, min-max your character, get displeased due to a mistake you make with circle choices, you are a hardcore player. Only hardcore players will argue about class changes, mechanic changes and stuff. Only hardcore players will spend hours playing their character, found out what went wrong, get angry and come to forums to post and complain about it. Casuals will “okay, this game might not be suitable for me. kthxbye.”

Hence, I humbly suggest it will be good to change your points as it doesn’t really come across as representing the casual crowd. It just feels that those that advocate a class reset are “conveniently using the casual crowd” as an excuse and means to get votes.

3 Likes
#32

Damn I’m actually really sad about all the hate to rebirth systems, you realize this game is about grinding and grinding, working with endgame, and then that’s it?

Rebirth system adds quite a lot of replayability, reward, and allows you to not sacrifice all your progress (aka alts in this game since adventurer’s journal rank completely resets).

This game is also very punishing on mistakes, rebirth system fixes this. However, I agree that the path should reflect your old choices in some way due to that taking away the point of rebirthing.

Also, why do you guys talk as if casuals NEED to do this if it was implemented? They don’t. It could provide a nice bonus to those who do it while not making it necessary for endgame content / enjoying the game.

#33

Sure, lets wait till cap reaches 600 then lets discuss rebirth. game have barely reached half the intentional cap.

#34

It seems people like the restarting a character from the beginning idea, just not keep skills and stuff. I do think there should be some benefits though.

#35

I don’t like it.

It’s a complete rework of a system that’s end goal is level 600 already.

We don’t need this. This seems like it would just make certain classes with good Circle 1’s overpowered, for example Wizard and Archer class.

Bad idea.

We just want to redo our circles from the ground up without having to re-do 1,400 quests and 100 hours of soulless grinding.

#36

I can make you a rodelero guide if you want

#37

wasn’t this introduced as a new feature preview somewhere for ToS? I may be wrong tho… anyway, rebirth is a weird idea anyway, I mean, “grind 600 levels then start all over to level 1 with only a few advantages cuz screw your life and we just want you to endless grind your lives-out , then you rebirth again and again mwahahahah oh and the rebirth item will be a TP item mwahahah”

#38

Why do you guys talk as if you can’t play the game without this option if it was implemented? You can still grind to cap and be able to handle all endgame content. It shouldn’t be necessary to be strong via rebirthed in order to handle some content, but it should make you better for said content in some way to reward time…

But I don’t get how everyone would feel it forces everyone to do it?

#39

Wow such well thought idea. It made me laugh only one syllable–HA.

#40

That’s why you shouldn’t make careless decisions. People should take responsibility for their choices for once. One word: irresponsible people

#41

This. I don’t know how the class reset debate became “casuals vs. hardcores”. Casual players by definition would not be concerned about min-maxing and attaining the most viable build. Unless the class choices have absolutely 0 synergy (hoplite fencer or something), the vast majority of builds can do whatever PvE content the game has to offer. I think players on both sides of the debate are frankly “hardcore” :/…