Tree of Savior Forum

Rebirth Swordies


#1

Given most of the talk in the forums are hardly about swordies & if there are, they’re buried under other classes, I thought it might be good to share ideas on builds before Rebirth hits. The ones I’ve listed below are PVE-oriented and ones i’m interested in fyi.

And as effective as builds that maximizes the best parts of certain classes, I think it’s quite backwards if you have to invest in 3 or more different weapons and 2 subweapons to actually use the class itself and are newbie-unfriendly. As such, the ones below are at most 2 weapons + 1 subweapon.

hakka pelta highlander
link1

doppel highlander matador
link2

murm pelt rode
link3


#2

I like the doppel-highlander, but adding a matador means one additional weapon, so I’d rather have either nak muy or barb to replace that.

Murm-pelt-rode has good stats, but I’m not sure how well the atack skills of rode will be since I think the murm helmet attributes are gone? Murm has strong skills but from my experience, they have high cooldown, so I’d replace rode with an offensive class. Highland maybe?


#3

Barb is realy strong.
I never understand nak on doppel builds…

more build guesses:

hop/lancer + cata or dragoon. (2h spear)

hop/rete + pelt or goon (1h spear)

hl/doppel/barb (2h sword)

mata/fencer + hl/barb or pelt (rapier)


#4

True, however at that point I can imagine being overwhelmed by the number of skills. & I was looking at matador sygnerizing with HL (bleed mainly) with crit buffs + a provoke for mobbing while dopp provides the main kit. And looking at barb again, yeah it does seem good. Might replace HL for barb.

The helmet attribute was to compensate for the lower damage of lower circle shield swordies, it makes sense to buff it. But given rebirth is supposed to place all classes on an “even” playing field, I think rode would be fine given the -15% armour debuff, shieldbash’s 8xx% SFR, multi OH and relatively low CD would be great in murm’s kit. And the status effects.

I think you mean to say a class with shorter cooldowns for fillers right? Nak would fit better with fairly high SFR with low cooldowns within 5 - 10 seconds.

I’m leaning towards hop/reit/goon for this, based on current itos i feel i don’t have enough skills for a proper rotation & reit gives only 3 skills with a massive 25% armour debuff. Goon fills the fillers while hop gives some buffs.

I’m actually quite against pelt’s 1.5 CON stat modifier for this build to be honest. alternatively mata/fen/dop builds look great for clearing CMs too while the barb-HL variants look more like either a circle for damage buffs/fillers.

HL does feel underwhelming to me


#5

anyway doppel is binded with barb and HL . All other class require anothe weop which is sux.


#6

Yeah. That is why swordie is the most limiting class atm. IMC’s solution for now is the autoweapon swapping. But still you have to invest in more weapons. Haha hope they can make the swordie class improve!


#7

Warcry reduce enemy deff and give a good atk boost.
More bossing power doppel gives more aoe but dov feels realy weak …

hoplite still could be good for fencers.


#8

A lot of Classes in the Swordsman tree no longer have weapon restrictions on many if not all of their skills.
You could e.g. build a Reti>Matador>Doppelsoeldner focused on grouping enemies and killing them with AoE attacks with only 1 Rapier, focusing mainly on skills that allow all weapon types (could get a dagger for autoswitching with Dagger Finish, since the skill now scales with mainhand attack, and for Dagger Guard).

Archer is far more restricted right now because of the gameplay differences on top of 4 weapon paths (Crossbow,Bow,Musket & Cannon).


#9

it will never work if you main a 2h sword.


#10

yup agreed on most of what you’re saying. Whereas for hoplite, can finestra be used with a spear & keep the buff when swapped back to rapier? I can’t remember what was the conclusion to that.

Stabbing & pierce cast times are really slow & are at odds with the rest of a fencer’s kit (& matador to some extent). While i’ll give it that spear lunge’s ignore 50% armour is the best thing coming from hop.

  1. There are weapon restrictions. You’re not gonna be able to use “Spear Lunge” with a 2HD sword. Weapon swap =/= Weapon Restriction. & it’s only swordies that got this “feature” while archers has had it for ages.
  2. As mentioned, having to invest in so many weapons will more or less dilute the effectiveness. Sure, you have the freedom to do so but you also have to weigh in the different physical attack types. Strike pierce slash have different skills that compliment them with the according debuffs.
  3. Your example of reit/mata/dop, link, would have effectively be locked to purely “farming” with just barely 7-8 attacking skills (2 skills from dop, 2 skills from reit, 3 skills from mata). I don’t think I can suggest to anyone to do such a build. & fencers are locked to using daggers or shields as stat stick. Neither give any benefits over the other, other than dagger guard.

lastly,

Offtopic. Keep it where it should be.


#11

number of skills with 3 weapon options/number of skills with weapon restrictions/total number of skills

Swordsman: 0/0/5
Doppelsoeldner:0/5/9
Nak Muay: 0/0/6
Dragoon: 0/8/8
Lancer:0/6/8
Retiarius:1/3/7
Rodelero:7/7/8
Matador:0/6/7
Murmillio:8/8/8
Barbarian:0/0/7
Cataphract:0/4/7
Templar:3/3/8
Fencer:0/8/8
Peltasta:6/6/7
Highlander:0/1/7
Hackapella:0/6/7
Hoplite:0/5/7

You don’t have to invest into these unless you want a rainbow build. The developers lied when they mentioned 560 build options, but there are a lot of viable options for Sword, Spear and Rapier.

I laughed at that example (worst choice) since a skill that has spear in its name should be only usable with spear.
Yes, some Classes are really restrictive in their skill set (Doppelsoeldner,Lancer,Cataphract,Dragoon,Fencer,Matador,Hackapella), but that’s 7 of 17 Classes in total.
Which means that 10 Classes (~59% of all Swordsman Classes) are open for more build options.

I rather see the problem that two-handed spear & two-handed sword are too restrictive in their very nature (they make up for it with raw power) and not that there is a huge diversity problem.

[quote=“kennethlikesapples, post:10, topic:394465”]
Your example of reit/mata/dop would have effectively be locked to purely “farming”[/quote]

I never said that build would be overly effective for all content. I just stated it as a possibility because there are skills that don’t have weapon restrictions in the Classes skill tree.

Btw, 5 of the 8 potential attack skills have 10 seconds CD time, so I don’t see the problem with having only 8 attack skills (if we ignore the counter skill Muleta [also only 10 seconds CD]).


#12

Why are we going into semantics, fine. & sorry for not going down in order

I stated already I would like to keep it to 2 main weapon builds at most for newbies. Nothing about the build options, of which I say are doable but only for whales. Hence I pointed it out as most players aren’t going to get the bang out of the buck for their characters.

& neither did i say it’s “overly effective for all content”? I simply identified the strengths and stated that it has only the capabilities for that single purpose, then commented that it’s not a suitable build for newbies unless they’re a whale.

With the aforementioned build, the 10 second skills you have only 3 skills (paso doble, dagger finish & ???thrust???) and the other 2, spear finish requires a spear of which you already established “1 rapier” while punish is a conditional skill that is only usable when mobs are knocked down, hence useless in anything but farming & possibly CM but it’s annoying when a newer player knocksback mobs out of the influence of other players causing delays. So in general situations you only have “3” 10 CD skills with 3 DPS skills (Corrida Final and cyclone are mobbing skills) and a debuff skill (disarm). As such you’ll see a HUGE downtime in any prolonged bouts around the 2nd rotation which bleeds into the 5th & so on.

As such, I concluded early that it’s not suitable for longer fights such as boss fights and is more suitable for farming as time between getting large mobs of enemies would be more cooldown forgiving.

Yup I agree, bad choice as an example but bad examples for bad statements. Then again, all if not a majority of the skill names for swordies & offtopic-class’s skills are related to the weapon type. If so, wouldn’t this discussion be moot? But then again here we are.

The first two seems to be repeating as, i reckon the 1st one be taken off. Taking Nakmuay as an example, it has no skills with weapon restrictions and all it’s skills are listed as all for weapon options. & if not, why aren’t you also applying it to subweapons for daggers and shields too as the classes are further restricted. Taking a step further, what about the skills that have 2 weapon options?

inb4 : they’re the definition of the class, I can say the same to a certain tree (class) which has many restrictions based on the identity of said classes which would be offtopic.

But for sake of discussion, let’s reduce it to number of skills with weapon restrictions/total number of skills & mind not including swordsman as a class? It’s redundant as every class listed below has to have it.

Doppelsoeldner:5/9
Nak Muay:0/6
Dragoon: 8/8
Lancer:6/8
Retiarius:3/7
Rodelero:7/8
Matador:6/7
Murmillio:8/8
Barbarian:0/7
Cataphract:4/7
Templar:3/8
Fencer:8/8
Peltasta:6/7
Highlander:1/7
Hackapella:6/7
Hoplite:5/7

I’m not going for semantics so, 11/16 have the majority of their skills weapon restricted. I too have a calculator on my computer so that’s 68.75% of classes have weapon restrictions & if we have a go at “number of skills with 3 weapon options”, 3/16 or 18.75% for classes with the majority of their skills with 3 weapon options.


#13

With Shinobi and Corsair out of swordsman tree

I am kind of stuck with what my fencer go after re:build

Never a fan of matador, so my current fencer is HL>Corsair>Shinobi>Fencer

I wonder what’s my choice after re:build? Seem only viable option would be those without weapon restriction other than Matador and since I already have a hoplite in other alt. Seem only HL and Barb left?


#14

I just want more options for 2-handed swordsman :tired:


#15

The reason is simple, we are talking about one-handed Classes that all can wear a shield and a dagger to switch in via auto weapon swap. Since Dagger Finish scales with main weapon attack, you don’t even need to upgrade and/or transcend it.

Swordsman is important because it can provide 2 attack skills for every build. It also provides the one-handed sword attribute in case you want to use a sword on builds that allow it.

You can’t do that Oo. 3 weapon options allow for a lot of build options, as they are in nearly every case One-handed Sword, One-handed Spear and Rapier, which covers the vast majority of Swordsman Classes in the game.

Only Lancer, Cataphract and Doppelsoeldner are unable to benefit from these skills, that’s why I included the 3 weapon restriction cases (which are ± only restricting these 3 specific Classes) in the list.

Maybe I should make another list so you can see the difference:

One-handed Spear:
Hoplite
Retiarius
Dragoon

One-handed Sword:
Hackapella

Rapier:
Fencer
Matador

Classes that allows any of the upper weapon types for over 2/3 of their skillset:
Murmillio
Rodelero
Peltasta

Restriction-free Classes:
Barbarian
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander (let’s ignore that block skill)

This means (with the exception of Hackapella since it has a riding restriction) that every spear & rapier Class has at least 7 other Class options for the build.

To make a list for a viable build pool:

One-handed spear: 9 options + Swordsman
Hoplite
Retiarius
Dragoon
Barbarian
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander
Murmillio
Rodelero
Peltasta

Two-handed spear: 7 options + Swordsman
Lancer
Cataphract
Hoplite
Dragoon
Barbarian
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander

One-handed Sword: 7 options + Swordsman(8 with Hackapella, but it reduces viability with riding restrict)
Hackapella
Barbarian
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander
Templar
Murmillio
Rodelero
Peltasta

Two-handed sword: 5 options + Swordsman
Doppelsoeldner
Templar
Barbarian
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander

Rapier: 8 options + Swordsman
Fencer
Matador
Nak Muay
Swordsman
Highlander
Templar
Murmillio
Rodelero
Peltasta

If you’re fine with being able to use only ~50% of a Classes skill tree (due to weapon restriction & mostly buffs/debuffs),
these Classes are additionally open for every base weapon:

Retiarius
Doppelsoeldner
Templar


#16

I want more option for Rapier user
I mean real option not just “no weapon restriction” option but more synergy other than Matador-Fencer


#17

My response to this is,

I’m using rhetorical questions as a manner to point out how your statement is wrong, unless you get that we’re not going any further than this.

The issue with this is that swordsman gives 3 buffs, bear-painbarrier-gungho. Bear and gungho are important for “every build” as it gives better situational adjustments to play style. Much less to speak of pain barrier. It’s a terrible trade off even for a single point from any of these three skills as their effects compound.

No, fair enough. I misread some bits there. You’re right.


#18

Unfortunately as scouts and archers have much lesser classes than us, they’ll probably get new classes introduced before us. There was an image regarding the concept characters planned surfing around. You might be able to spot some 2HD/rapier swordies, but only time will tell in the end.


#19

Please give me a build that uses One Handed Sword and Dagger.

Tks !!!


#20

None really, that was corsair’s route. Fencers typically use daggers as they get punished for using shields, and reti uses 1h spear and dagger. You wanna look at scout builds if you really want to use a sword and dagger.