Tree of Savior Forum

Rebalancing Merkabah or: How a skill was forgotten in rebalancing

Ok, now before I start my feedback on how the skill was rebalanced, I’m first stating the rebalancing measures that went into the skill factor as stated by the STAFF in the developers blog post “Combat System Changes Dossier Pt. 3” [Link].

According to their graphic

we can see that the main factors that were taken into consideration for rebalancing the skill values were split into 5 different categories:
“Basic”, “number of (possible)targets”, “time”, “casting” and “others”.

Armed with this I can now analyze Merkabah throughly.

Let’s take a look at the Basic category first.

  • The factor increases with both Rank and Circle

The 1st factor, Rank, is an easy one to cover, as its Rank 7 that introduces Merkabah to the game. This should net Merkabah a high base factor.
Similarly ranked skills are

  • Decatose (Pardoner), Incineration (Plague Doctor),

  • Evocation/Desmodus (Sorcerer),Corpse Tower (Necromancer), Mastema/Dark Theurge/Pole of Agony(Warlock), Blood Bath/Bone Pointing/Blood Sucking/Ngadhundi (Featherfoot),

  • Divine Machine Arrow (Fletcher),Wild Shot (Schwarzer Reiter), Sonic Strike (Falconer), Cannon Shot/Shootdown/Siegeburst/Cannon Blast (Cannoneer), Covering Fire/Headshot/Snipe/Butt Stroke/Penetration Shot/Bayonet Thrust (Musketeer),

  • Pistol Shot (Corsair), Deadly Combo (Squire), Zornhau/Redel/Zucken (Doppelsoeldner), Attaque Composee (Fencer), Dragon Tooth/Serpentine/Dragon Soar/Gae Bolg (Dragoon)

As we see, there are lots of skills here with a potentially high modifier due to their “Rank”-ing.

Let’s come to the Circle. This is a bit tricky as Merkabah is a Circle 1-only skill that gets a little enhanced with Circle 2 attributes. However, let’s just take note of Circle 1 skills which are bolded out in the prior list for the 2nd factor.
Here Merkabah won’t really get anything for being a Circle 1 skill, but I’d still consider a favorable treatment due to it only having 5 maximum skillevels(which is really rare for Circle 1 skills).



Next let’s look at the Number of targets-category.

It increases the factor with shorter range, so this factor is half-out for Merkabah (as it can be short- and long-ranged since its ground targeted).

Another increase is for the lower number of targets/AoE ratio.
Here, Merkabah gets full marks as it only has a basic, non-increased AoE-ratio for the explosion damage.



Next, let’s look at the “Time” category.

The first one, increases with longer attack durations, is really tricky again, as the skill takes considerably longer to damage enemies when the Circle 2 attribute to reduce the traveling speed is active,
but with the basic value, the skill takes approximately 3-5 seconds (depending on the traveling distance)to deliver its damage.
This means again a high factor value due to the first 2/3 of this time, no damage at all is delivered(it’s waiting time).

The second one, increases with longer CD times, is a no-brainer, as Merkabah has one of the highest CD times an attack skill can have with 45 seconds. Again recieving a high factor here.

The 3rd one, increases in channeling skills, doesn’t apply here, as Merkabah isn’t a channeling, but a basic cast skill.



Next, let’s look at the Casting-category.

1st, increases with longer cast times, is gaining some higher factor here, as it’s ~1 second interruptable casttime (the database says 0,6 seconds, but 1 second CD ingame ticks faster than casting Merkabah) that has to be overcome to invoke the skill.

2nd, increases for skills where the character cannot move while casting,
also nets Merkabah an increased factor, as you can’t move while casting and 1 additional second after the skill is invoked.

3rd, increases in skills where being attacked cancels the skill, is hard to interpret.
If canceling means ends the skill/send it on CD without doing anything, Merkabah gets nothing here,
but if canceling means ending the cast without invoking the skill, Merkabah gets another increased factor here.



Last but not least, let’s look at the Others-category.

1st, decreases with better additional skill effects.
Merkabah has no additional skill effects, with all possible effects stemming from attributes. This means 0 decreasing factor for Merkabah here.

2nd, increases with more difficult skill casting conditions.
Merkabah is basically the incorporation of this one.
The chariots have by nature only 1 HP and get instantly destroyed when hit. On top of that, the chariots draw aggro of enemies and remain in one place for 2-3 seconds before moving, making it extremely hard to even deal damage with this skill unless the Kabbalists already got the aggro of all monsters around him…
Maximum increase factor here, no other skill in TOS has casting conditions as hard as Merkabah.

3rd, for multihit skills, increase when the target can escape,
Also truer than true for Merkabah. Monsters can move out of the area of effect (explosion AoE), chase a certain chariot,thus missing the explosion or destroy the chariot to evade the attack. Maximum factor here.

4th, considers the price of consumed items, holds not true as Merkabah doesn’t require any items to be used.



So, let’s calculate how many conditions in favor of a better skill factor (from 0 to +++ for very high) Merkabah has got according to this statement:

Basic category: ++ (Rank 7 skill), + (Circle 1 skill)
Number of targets category: 0 (short range), ++ (AoE ratio)
Time category: ++ (longer attack duration), +++ (longer CD time), 0 (channeling time)
Casting category: + (longer casting time), ++ (cannot move while casting), + (getting attacked cancels the skillcasting)
Other category: 0 (additional skill effects), +++ (difficult skill casting conditions), ++ (target can escape multihit damage), 0 (item cost)

Total score: 19/39

Merkabah specs: base%= {275 + ([Skill Level] - 1) × 15.1} × Skill Level + Skill Level × 100;
CD time 45 seconds
Maximum damage at level 5 = 2175%


To compare e.g. Plague Doctors Incineration with it, we get a rating of:

Basic category: ++ (Rank 7 skill), + (Circle 1 skill)
Number of targets category: ++ (short range), + (AoE ratio)
Time category: + (longer attack duration), + (longer CD time), 0 (channeling time)
Casting category: + (longer casting time), + (cannot move while casting), 0 (getting attacked cancels the skill)
Other category: - (additional skill effects), + (difficult skill casting conditions), + (target can escape multihit damage), 0 (item cost)

Total score 11/39

Incineration specs (I believe it was already buffed but I’ll use the tos-ktest.neet.tv-values anyway):
base% = {98 + ([Skill Level] - 1) × 5.4} × [25 + bonus {extra duration for every debuff on the target}]
CD time 16 seconds;

Max damage at level 5 [ignoring the possible bonus duration]= 2975%



Question : Why does a skill with ± the same base specs as Merkabah, easier skill conditions and only ~1/3 of the CD time still have higher base% if the Combat System Changes Dossier Pt. 3 states that skills with more restrictions should have higher skill factors than those with less?

Was Merkabah really just forgotten to be rebalanced, as most Cleric skills feature more possible damage after rebalancing with easier casting conditions and lower risks to lose possible damage output, even at lower Ranks?

Dievdirbys e.g. can output 4500% within 51 seconds with Carve Attack level 5!!! and 11850% every 50 seconds with 2 Owl Statues [level 10].

Paladin deals 3420% within 45 seconds with level 5 Smite,
Monk deals 4710% damage with level 5 Double Punch [if he punches 1 time every 3 seconds for 45 seconds],
Druid C1 can deal 4975% damage with a simple level 5 Carnivory (with only 30 seconds CD time), Sadhus Possession level 5 deals up to 3507% in 20 seconds, Mikos Gohei deals 2664% in 8 seconds, heck even Priests Exorcise has 4650%[10 seconds]-6882%[15 seconds duration] every 36 seconds…

Squires Deadly Combo level 5 deals 4735% in 39 seconds, and Alchemists Alchemistic Missile level 5 even 5200% every 18 seconds, just to add some other numbers from seemingly support-Classes and see them in relation.



If it’s hard to properly rebalance Merkabah, I have a solution:

Move Merkabah from Kabbalist C1 to Kabbalist C2 and increase the skill value accordingly, to around 500%base + ~100 x skillevel % so that the skill deals around 5000% total damage at level 5.

This still wouldn’t suffice to cover the huge difference in damage to similar ranked skills or the simple fact that Kabbalist still has only one damage skill, but it would be a start into the right direction…

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Last time I checked you cant ride carve attack, smite, double punch ect. Your point is moot.

Not giving any opinion on the content itself since I have almost no Cleric experience.

But to give an honest opinion, don’t group the %SF into one without even referencing the real/tooltip %SF. It honestly just causes pointless confusion and make everything harder to read since the user has to go back and forth to wikis just to know the tooltip % of certain skills. Grouping the skill factor % like this can, for example, overestimate or underestimate certain skills.

The tooltip % on the skill is enough for anyone to read and in a case of comparing total damage I’d rather have one example monster as test-case and assumed values for Attack so you can compare final damage as well.

Thing is, Merkabah is a totally different skill than most the others you compared it too. Merkabah has range, is magic damage, and has several utility aspects.

Though I guess the cd could be lowered a bit to maybe around 30 seconds though.

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tl;dr muh merkabah

Literally what

Kabbalist is a support class. Why does it need as much damage as these other classes which are clearly straight DPS or hybrid DPS?

Merkabah is just the icing on the cake of a one-circle wonder class as it is, and I say that having a kabba2 myself. It’s reasonable to assume that some skills might be neglected in a big rebalance like this, to be honest I’m just glad it’s one where the entire rest of the class is already strong and mostly agnostic to the significant changes being made.

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While Merkabah is a really nice skill when it comes to suporting, Merkabah is unfortunately a bit weak when you want to use it for its damage, due to being limited to only a max level of 5, longer cd and targets being able to run out of its range.

I think they should raise Merkabah max level from 5 to 15 levels, with the following properties :

  • of Wheels summoned : skillevel 1~3 : 1 wheel, 4~6 : 2 wheels, … level 13~15 : 5 wheels

  • of hits per Wheel when it explodes at target location : skillevel 1~5 : 1 hit. skillevel 5~10 : 2 hits. skillevel 11~15 : 3 hits

At level 5 it’d be a bit weaker as it is now (4 wheels instead of 5).
At the level of 10 (due to Kabba C2 being max atm) it would be 4 wheels with 2 hits each for 8 hits total, compared to current 5 wheels with 1 hit each, which would be about 60% more total damage, which is a thing i don’t think would make Merkabah too strong, considering it’s not that strong in the first place.
But when the Kabbalist really wants to go damage at Kabba C3 he’d need to invest the full 15 points in it (for 5 wheels with 3 hits each), which in turn means sacrificing points from R7F, Ein Sof, the math skills or upcoming Kabba C3 skills, which is a fair tradeoff i think and having to decide would make Kabba builds more interesting instead of just keeping it at max level of 5.

That or make 30 seconds cd and maybe 2 overheat.

But doesn’t Incineration deal like double damage when used with Black Death Steam? I think that should be taken into account, because any halfway decent PD will always use BDS before Incineration.

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That’s a Rank 8 mechanic/skill, though. The damage calculation, as stated by the developers in the combat change dossier, is also affected by Rank and Circle, which is the base for the calculation of damage.
This means that we have to take skills with similar basic conditions (e.g. Incineration level 5) to compare them with Merkabah and get a viable answer if [or not] the skill is balanced according to the developers balancing standards.


If we complicate it by assuming that this also takes into consideration skill interactions (which is not explicitly stated in the dossier), we will get different results and become unable to notice the base skill factors which should be [at least in theory] “calculateable” on a sheet of paper according to the points mentioned in the dossiers table of factors.

About your Merkabah changes: please not. Merkabah needs to become a viable source of damage at level 5, not at possible level 10 or 15 while draining all the points from other Kabbalist skills which are already bad enough as we talk about them.

None of the Kabbalists skills except Revenged Sevenfold are even remotely viable if you don’t put points into them like no tomorrow. That’s also being said @Csiko; Kabbalist C1 is not a one-Circle wonder, it’s a damn filler Class for most builds with Inquisitor/Taoist and now that many other Classes are more viable due to damage/support, even that 1 Circle is in most cases wasted on Kabbalist. Rather grab a Druid, Sadhu, Dievdirbys, Priest or Krivis and have an easier life than with Kabbalist.

Merkabah has to do exactly what the developers formulated& published, dealing damage accordingly to its Rank,Circle, Casting time, skillduration and inhibitory factors which should all benefit&boost the damage by a lot.



It’s not much to ask for equal treatment with Plague Doctors Incineration level 5 DPS-output, meaning roughly 8000% per 45 seconds,
but I’m very humane, asking only for 5000% at level 5 as Merkabah gets a little better from attributes at Circle 2.

If you really think that Kabbalist doesn’t deserve this, you are, by all means, a fiend of TOS, according to the developers blog post:

Hello, this is the developer in charge of skill and class balancing over at the TOS team.

We have been closely monitoring all the opinions and feedback you guys have been sending in from in-game, the forums and other sources about class balance.

There are a good number of possible class trees that have allowed for some creative builds from players of TOS. As developers, we appreciate all the enthusiasm you’ve shown.

Unfortunately, we also understand that not all of our players are happy with their class trees and builds. Some classes show their true beauty the way we intended them to and are consequently loved by many, but some classes weren’t as lucky and have often been ignored…

We at the dev team feel the need to reduce this ‘class disparity’.

We have implemented five class patches so far. These are the goals we have been aiming to achieve with them:

  1. Each class should have its own characteristics and roles.
    
  1. **Adjustments should be carefully planned to avoid one class dominating its rank or being left out, and to achieve a fairly equal distribution of classes in each rank**.
    
  1. Rather than letting one class become too good to the point of self-reliance, we should devise a plan to encourage different types of classes to work together and develop new play strategies.
    

Now let’s see, do you believe there will be as many Kabbalists C2 as there will be Plague Doctors C2 after the rebalancing? Where is the aimed at-equal distribution of Kabbalist and Plague Doctor if Kabbalist is still bad while Plague Doctor is now even better even if you only compare C1 Plague Doctor with C2 Kabbalist? Plague Doctor is also a freakin support Class, 3/4 of his skills don’t do anything to deal damage and yet his Incineration [and Plague Vapors] can pull a punch.

There is absolutely no reason why Merkabah should be left in the dust other than discrimination against Kabbalist and unfair rebalancing.

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There is absolutely no reason why Merkabah should be left in the dust other than discrimination against Kabbalist and unfair rebalancing.

There is: PD doesn’t have 7-fold. Skills should not be balanced in a vacuum, but with the whole other kit in mind.

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